Paula Curtis (00:42)
Today we're here visiting with Karen Rolfe. Karen is proof that dressage and natural horsemanship don't have to be separate worlds. Through dressage naturally, she's helped riders around the world find joy, harmony, and balance with their horses. Her passion for empowering students and making learning fun is contagious. So we can't wait for our visit here today, Karen, with you. Welcome. Yeah. Thanks for being in the fair again this year, Karen. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for thinking of me. I'm always happy when somebody remembers I'm around.
Yeah. And I coming on and talking about this stuff. any, any excuse is a good one to talk about horses. Yeah. I have to, I have to preface our conversation just by saying that you're kind of the reason why we're doing what we're doing. I went to transform your business live event in Florida back in, I don't know, it probably 2018, 2019. I don't quite remember, but in the beginning you had us really think about what
Do we want our life to look like and what is our real mission really is our passion? And I thought, well, my passion's always been learning. love to learn and I also love to help others. And so that's why I was teaching and training and doing whatnot, but it took me a little away from the root of really what was part of my passion. And I wanted to spread the learning and the horsemanship concepts.
I saw so much division in the industry. did a lot of hunter jumpers and dressage and eventing people, but we were horsemanship people at heart. Like that's what our foundation was. And you you all see the clashing between one discipline and another. I ride this and I ride that or I do this and I do that. It's gotten much better, I would say over the years. Cause you're doing one of these. Maybe sometimes, yeah. But through that reflection and through the process that you took us through in that event.
as professionals, what do we want our career to look like and how can we make it so it's really serving our own internal mission and purpose. It was a wonderful way for me to figure out really what I wanted to do. And so thank you so much for being an instrumental part of creating the fair, even though it was not maybe directly, but through- Can I be the grandmother of the fair? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, or maybe just the inspiration. But no, thanks for bringing that up because I remember that event and you were very inspired and then talking to you afterwards. And it's so cool to hear an idea be, you know, be part of the catalyst for an idea or just a spark to get the energy flowing. And then you ran with it. And that event, the Transform Your Business event, which I still have a program for that. So people can find out about that on my website. It's a lot easier to attend. You can join any time now, but
I market it to heart centered horse people and you guys are really like, this makes me so happy because it's the heart centered people who are really putting the horse first that I wanted to help thrive. Right? So my business course isn't all about like how to over price a horse to sell it and make lots of money. You know, it's really for the support, the people who care the most and give the most to horses. And so you're just, you just in with it and you're serving the horse community so amazingly.
So yeah, it's just super fun to see what happens with a little inspiration and you put all the work into it. Well, and the fun part is even some of the people that I met at your event are part of the fair now and have been in years past. So you've really, you've helped a lot of us define our mission and figure out.
exactly where and how we show up in the horse industry. So thank you for that. Thank you. that's so, that just makes me so happy. Tell us a little bit about your journey and how you got started with horses and just anything that comes to mind that you might want people to know about your adventure and your journey here with horses. Sure. Yeah. I mean, the journey started early. I mean, the joke in my family was my first word was horses and then mom and dad.
So I don't know, I mean my mom had a horse when she was a kid and she liked horses, but we didn't have horses when I was really little. And so I don't know where it came from, but like all the pictures were horses, all the stories were horses. It just was in my blood, guess, somehow. And, um, but you know, my mom liked horses, so I was able to get a horse when I was little. And, I did pony club as I was actually just speaking at the pony club convention. And I, I tell this story, which is kind of funny. My most embarrassing horse story ever.
Happened when I was in pony club with my first horse. went on a Fox hunt and my horse took off, ran past everybody, cut right through the hounds, which is really a big no-no. Kept going. The huntsman on his four-year-old off the track Thorbrid had to chase after me and grab my horse while it was still running and bring me up to my mom. I'm like 12 at the time, 13. And he led me up to my mom and said, take this kid for dressage lessons so she can learn how to control her horse.
And so she did. Yeah. So that's how I started in dressage is because of that. And then, you know, in pony club, it's based around eventing. So you kind of had to do the dressage and, β it just went from there. My, my second horse just happened to be, end up learning dressage. Like we were blind leading the blind. And then I also, you know, quite luckily lived close enough to the only dressage trainer we knew on Long Island where I grew up and which happened to be Anne Gribbins. It's just like one of the top.
trainers in the world. she loved kids. She really supported the kids program. at some point, my instructor left and she said, I'll take the skinny kid on the skinny therapist. And she just kept teaching us and I just went up the levels in pony club. So eventing and dressage. I remember Anne at one point said, you're going to have to decide because you're not going to jump a precinct George horse over any more ditches.
And at that point I was not that brave a rider. So I was doing cross-country courses, like getting close to preliminary level. And, and I'd approach a jump telling the horse, Hey, if you want to jump it, I'll stay on. But if you don't want to jump it, that's okay with me. And I thought I'm going to kill myself because that's not the way to approach a jump. Anyway, so that's when I just focused on dressage and that horse went up the levels and we represented the U S four times on the young rider team. And it's that horse that.
caused me to become a professional because people started asking me to help them and train their horses and teach them. Yeah. So I was a perfectly normal dressage trainer until, and I guess, if you were my trainer and I, because we would train alongside of each other. And so my, that horse, brave Tom, that was my pony couple horse, he retired and I went a while without horses. And so I was just training horses really
fancy, expensive, imported horses. And my trainer and I used to joke of like how generous Brave Tom was and all these super talented horses, you know, were being really difficult and acting like they couldn't do it. And so it was like, ha ha ha. But then later when someone gave me their horse, so someone died and they willed me their horse, it was an upper level horse, but he was very shut down, really shut down. Sweet, but just close to an inanimate object.
But then he was mine and I started treating him like I do, like I was a little kid with my own horse again and I treated him differently than the training horses. And then that's the horse that I started doing natural horsemanship with. So he was getting older, he had soundness problems. didn't, you know, he barely got any turnout at that facility and I was looking for something fun and silly to do with him. And I stumbled across a flyer for a Pirelli clinic with a guy named David Lichman.
I'm like, all right, I see a horse standing on a pedestal. That looks like fun. I mean, that's the extent of my investigation into this. was looking for silly horse tricks. And what I learned at that clinic just opened my eyes. And in the next two years, that horse who had been shut down, used up, barely sound, ready to retire, gave me his best. He lit up. just became generous, happy.
interactive and I went, what just happened? Like what just happened? And now he was feeling special the way Brave Tom felt special. And I thought it's not the horse, it's the relationship. So, you know, once you experience that, like how can, how could I not go in and investigate more and find out, you know, all I could? was like, it was me. But the, the spirit of that little kid with her horse.
You know, so now, you know, I know a lot of techniques for training a dressage horse through the levels and now, you know, through the natural horsemanship experience, it woke up the importance of the childlike love for the horse and then added on more techniques for mentally, emotionally, you know, developing the horse. And then it just, you know, went from there because yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't not, I couldn't ignore the result that I got when I wasn't even looking for that result.
That got my attention. And so here I am. So then the next block of time was trying to figure out, I'm a professional trainer, a professional instructor. How the heck am I supposed to explain how you combine dressage and all this relationship and then, you know, communication? Like, so I ended up writing my book so that I could figure out what my system was. Right. And the rest is history. So there it is. Right. Yeah.
I mean, bridging and sort of connecting that the English side and the Western side, which all, it all starts and begins in the same place and it probably ends in the same place, you could say. But the idea of, you know, sort of that, the mental component of horses and you get a lot of that from the horsemanship side of things. then, but then applying the rider side of it and rider equitation and biomechanics and how we influence the horse and...
It seems like the English is very strong on the rider physics and the Western side was real strong on the philosophy. So let's, let's bring the two together. And you've really made a great like melding of those two worlds and putting that together. Thanks. Yeah. And I don't really see it as English or Western. cause there's, yeah, I think that doesn't describe it well enough. And even in the natural horsemanship, I didn't see English or Western. It's like the.
People who did natural horsemanship at the time I was learning it in the late 1900s, you know, it sounds really horrible when I say it that way, you know, tended to be Western. But you think sort of who are the people out there watching horses in the wild? Cowboys. But I, know, when you see people playing at Liberty and bridalists, it kind of like, well, is it the jeans that they wear? I mean, it kind of is. I remember when I was spending time with Pat and Linda Prilley.
Pat was like, you have to buy Wranglers. I'm like, I'm not buying Wranglers. I'm a Levi's girl. doesn't like, so not about the outfit. But that's what I, you know, I tried, luckily for some reason I was able to look through that because as a dressage rider, you can look at Western or a lot of the stuff happening in the basics of natural horsemanship and go, I don't really want that. But what I was able to see through is like, wait, how are they talking to the horse?
It doesn't matter what kind of horse it is, if it's a quarter horse or whatever, it doesn't matter if they're wearing chaps or tall boots or chinks or like, just was like, how are they explaining it to the horse and look at that horse understanding and being willing. That's the part that interests me. Cause I always knew like, well, my end goal isn't, you know, cows, although I did spend a lot of time following cows around, but you know, what can I learn from that?
to create my own dream. so, Paulie, you were talking earlier about the creating the vision in your business. That's what I encourage everybody to do as a horseman. Like, what do you want to do? Like, you're allowed to have whatever relationship you want with your horse and you're allowed to do whatever you want with your horse and you're allowed to mix and match in a way that makes you happy. And even with my Dressage Naturally program, I tell people it's not about becoming a perfect Dressage Naturally student. It's about
What do you want to do? And then what do you, what do you need help with? And then if I can help, I'll help and I'll help, you know, help guide you. But I think it's so many people get stuck trying to like be correct or right. And like you said, there's a million different techniques out there. They all can work. Yeah. Which one do you want and what results do you want to get? So I just like to let people really free up and dream a little bit and.
I've learned so much from students who at first when I come they're like, they're not doing it right. Then I watch them. like, but it's working. What are they doing? So that openness to just observe and dream and then get help trying to figure out how to do the thing you want to do. Yeah. And you can do it your own way. That's okay. That's what makes it beautiful. That's what makes it art is that we all have our own take on whether it's horsemanship or business, but we all have our own.
take on it. And I have a neighbor who's a really interesting guy. He was his whole life, he was heavily into like, like karate and martial arts. And he studied all over the world. And he said that he got to a certain level and his instructor now wanted to see his flair and to see his take of it. And it's a martial art is an art. so first he had been spending time learning, say this technique, but in the end, they wanted him to put his own take.
on it. And you've always embraced that with people. And so maybe our way of doing it's a little bit different, but like you said, you can't help but to see it if it works and what are they doing? And I think that's what makes it beautiful. And that's really what you, one of the things that you guys are offering people is a chance to peek at a lot of different ways. You're not saying, okay, this one person is the right way to do it. You're just really opening this possibility for people to go, you know, look at all, look at what all these people are doing.
you know, and you can find the one that resonates and get help. Yeah, like you're saying, you know, it's about kind of having a vision. And so that's what the fair offers people as a vision. This is what it looks like when different people do it different ways. because we are all unique individuals and all of our horses are unique individuals, we're going to, it's not going to look like anybody else, you know, but
But what sorts of things do you want to pull in that match the vision that you see for you and your horse? yeah, and then they can explore, you know, whomever they resonate with further. And the other piece is everybody is on a different place in their journey. So like, you know, our vision initially, we might resonate with X, Y, or Z, but then as we progress a little further, now we're ready to take a little from, you know, this person.
And then, ooh, but there's a little bit of that that I really like and I'm going to pull it in. And then all of a sudden, three years down the road, we're now exploring over here. And that's the real fun part about horses is it's this never ending journey of learning. And they open up all sorts of rabbit holes that you may not have otherwise gone down, you know, be it like Feldenkrais, but you know, biomechanics and, you know, health. mean, definitely health and
There's just all sorts of stuff that they cause us to learn about ourself and about what we need to learn about life. And I really value the fact that horses have brought so much richness into my life in not just the horse piece, but all aspects of life. And that's the goal with the fair. How have horses influenced you in other areas of life that have created ripples?
route. gosh, I mean, in everything, I mean, it's like everything you need to know about life, can learn from horses. And, you know, if there's a piece that's missing, just wait, you'll find a horse that'll point it out, what you need to learn. I mean, I think the patience, think the, you know, following the process, right? There's little immediate gratification in horses. I mean, we love those days where it's just like, it just worked.
but to be patient with the process for sure of like the value of just doing, getting the piece. I call it putting the pennies in the gymnastic bank. And sometimes you put a penny in, sometimes you put a quarter in, sometimes you stick five bucks in there, but you're just keep investing and keep investing. So I think that, I think the horses to me are all about forgiveness the way dogs are about unconditional love. So.
the millions of mistakes that I've made with horses and how forgiving they are as soon as I get it right sort of blows me away. There's plenty of times with horses I'm like, why are you letting me do this? I just got it wrong for years and then I do this one thing differently and there it is. And I think I as a human can learn a lot from that with horses. just the, I mean, I taught a whole course called happiness and harmony.
Because what we're striving for with horses is to find this harmony, right? So if you're out of harmony with horses, you fall off or they run away. So looking at like, well, how do we do that? And kind of boiling down the process into these two ways to be in harmony, you either go with your horse, right? If your horse goes left, go left and you'll be together. So we either go with our horse or have our horse come with us. And so it sounds really simple.
But how many times in life and with horses do we go, this doesn't feel good. And we just kind of stay there in that yucky moment, just kind of holding our leg on. We'll just, we'll just keep my leg on to hold that instead of going, wait, let's find that harmony. And I think that has been a fun realization of it's what I do with horses. And when I teach, I look for the disharmony and then I go, okay, what are we going do with this? Do we need to?
help the horse come with you or do you need to let go and go with the horse? Isn't that applicable to life, right? Are we just tolerating stuff in the not good way and the suffering kind of version of that word or are we going, wait a minute, what's here? What can I change or what do I need to let go and go with? Yeah, just little things like that. Just little things, Just little things like the whole method we live by.
What are some simple things that people could apply today to allow their horse to teach them some of these lessons, but also to improve their relationship with their horse? That's a great question. It's a big question. I think, I mean, to really get to the heart of it, and which is cool, it's like a biggest thing, but it's also the thing that's right here right now and most easily accessible, is to just be in the moment free of
judgment. And that's, you know, it sounds very self-help-y, but I mean, that's it. Like they're living in this moment and we humans are living in the, you know, did I do it right? If I can't do this, it means I'm that. And then we feel bad. And then we, you know, there's so many layers of stuff that we humans tend to put on ourselves. And the more we can be in the moment without judgment, then we can just look and we can go, that's happening. I wonder how I can improve that.
What would I rather be happening? And then if it is going well, we can really enjoy it. Like there's a lot of students I teach that I'll be like, I'll be like, my God, like that looks amazing. And that's what I'm feeling on the inside. And I don't see anything change. And I'll ask the student, like, how's that feel? And they're like, it feels great. And I'm like, wait, you're like, breathe that. Like, wow, this is a great moment. Cause there are horses sitting there going, how am I doing? And the human's like, I don't know. And a lot of times.
What's stopping that, oh my God, this feels amazing, is self-doubt, is going, but is it correct? I mean, I work with a lot of dressage interested people, so they're very precise. So that's a lot in their minds. Is this the right bend? How does it feel? It feels great. That probably is pretty close, you know? So that being in the moment and free of the judgment that stops you from really acknowledging naturally what's happening in the moment. Cause people know when it's not working.
and they know when it is or when it matches what they were imagining. And either way, like you've got to let your horse know if it's not what you asked for or let them know when it is. And I think the root of the vast majority of problems with horses is they're not sure if that thing you did actually meant something or not. So they're like, am I supposed to, was that meant for me? And so some horses kind of do a halfway, like I'll just sort of.
do it. Okay, that wasn't so bad. didn't give me a carrot, but they didn't kick me either. And then we're living in this almost land instead of going, my God, that was awesome. Nope, not that. my God, that was awesome. And I think the horses really want us to breathe and want us to tell them how they're doing. And that fear of doing it incorrectly, I think really gets in a lot of people's way.
Yeah, it's like they're thinking past, present and future all at the same time. So they're not really in the now, they're not in the present, they're not feeling. Feeling is a present thing. To have a good feel with your horse, you need to be in the moment. so yeah, bringing people back to that place and then that idea of not having judgment, because judgment puts you back into the past again. Usually. And so people would, know, then they're seeing everything they don't like about their horse instead of seeing everything they do like.
about the horse to get more of that. So yeah, you bring up some really some- And to celebrate. To celebrate. Because it's because that feeling, yeah, because if they can duplicate that feeling and for them and their horse. And so the horse says, this is what this should feel like. This is such a great place to be. And you're right, there's so many people that are wishy washy or they're gray, they're in the middle. And I don't think they know if that's what they wanted or not.
And then like, where's the baseline for the horse to go with the human? Yeah, it's really hard. taking time to stop, let down long rain, rub on them, scratch on them, you let down, stretch while they stretch, you know, just taking that downtime together and settling. That's a good place where the horse goes, okay, they're happy and I'm happy. Yeah, exactly. So many times, especially coming from the dressage world, like the session begins and it's one arc and then it ends. And that's like a lot of stuff happened.
just understanding the value of the mental break and letting the emotional, nervous system come back down. And so there's, instead of just one 45 minute session, there's like, oh, I did this and then I nailed it and I did this. Well, that was a little harder. took me a, oh, now I nailed it. And there's like this whole story of many, many, many successes and moments along the way that the horse can then absorb and the person can absorb better.
Yeah. And until I think you stand there and let that horse sit and settle, I think that's the point where they really reflect on what just happened. think so much of the time people think the more they do the better. So they keep the horse moving and moving and moving, but the horse is now thinking about the presence, not tripping, not stumbling, you know, that you're safe, that they're safe. So there's all these things going on, but I think when somebody takes time to stop and stand and really give the horse time to let down.
That's when the good stuff really, really happens and the horses really start to think. Yeah, for sure. And I think this is where it's like the mental, emotional, physical monitoring, those, the states of those three elements, because if your horse is really in emotionally good state and they totally understand their work, like then you can start thinking about strength and stamina and get into a physical groove. And there, there is a benefit to being in a physical groove where they like, they get that flow.
And they, they loosen up and, to me that's okay to do. But again, the horse has to be in understanding well within what he understands and well within the range of like, yeah, let's do this. And that gives me the permission to go to the physical, all right, now we're going to get in this physical zone. So that's where coming from the dressage and then the, you know, partnership based and natural horsemanship and mental emotional stuff. I really felt like, yeah, it, gives a bigger toolbox if you can understand those three.
ways of, of working with your horse and which one are you working in at any given moment? And if you're working in the physical, but it's ruining their emotional state because they don't understand you're doing more damage, not worth it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you can just see, you know, talking with you how, how you're keeping your sessions joyful and playful. And I love how you said it's like a story, you know, you've got these little chapters and then you've got these little pauses in between and, and
And it's not this constant sort of workflow, but it's broken up for our horses. And the idea of celebrating for both ourselves and our horses, those are all such important things. And really the reason we're all doing this is because we love our horses, we want to be having fun. And why don't we make that a part of every single interaction? Yeah. And that's a perfect segue to the videos.
I'll just segue us there guys. Yeah. But the videos that I chose to put in your fair this time really relate to this concept. So I put two videos that are about working with lower energy horses and how to access some of their energy and do it in a way that feels like they're joining in the process or they feel like it's a good deal for them. Again, coming from the dressage world, if you had what they would call a lazy horse,
I call them low energy, but those horses often, if you watch a lesson, the instructor will say things like, don't let them fall asleep, keep your leg on, keep them moving. So you have a horse who's trying to conserve energy and then even when they quote unquote take a break, they're thinking, don't let them, don't let them fall asleep, don't let them slow down, you know, to use their words, which to me would only motivate a horse to try to con-
try harder to conserve their energy if they feel like they're never going to get to rest. So motivating and working with those horses that are a little desensitized or conserving their energy for some reason can be really frustrating because you get on to go and like, I don't have anything to work with. And so the videos I chose, I have a really precise process or protocol for opening this up and getting that communication working and then separate from that, then sustaining it.
because we can't sustain something that we don't have in the first place. And being very, very, very precise in the communications, asking the students lots of questions like, did your horse just match the picture of what you asked for? then, but to the like percentage, did he match at 70%, 99 %? Like, which was it? And then responding accordingly, right? So if they make a big improvement, you rest for longer. If they make a small improvement or go backwards, you go, well, thank you.
But let's try it again, right? So it's this game where the cause and effect of what's happening is very, very precise. But again, it's playful. It's like, you you're breathing, you're like, well, we tried it. That didn't work. Let's try it again. Yay, that worked. And the horse starts to figure out, oh, they're being really specific. And the most economical way to be in this session is to do what they're asking as soon as possible. That's the fastest way to rest.
So you're using what they want to do as a reward and the motivation for them to do the thing you want to do. So it's really, really, it's a fun protocol. And once students learn it, they can easily, you know, write down the script and then go practice it at home. And then the sustaining one is again, the same thing. I teach the protocol. When I do this live, I teach the protocol and then they literally have a script written down on little piece of paper and they get in buddies. I'm like, okay.
work with each other and it's so fun for them to do that process. at the end, everybody's flowing, beautifully matching their picture. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I'm just sitting back enjoying watching them go through the process. So I'm really excited and I hope I get to hear from some people who watch these videos how it went because it's super fun. And you're setting the situation up so everybody's a winner. Oftentimes in
training or lessons, one person is losing a little bit and this is not at all that way. You get what you want, your first gets what they want, everybody's happy and that's really what our session should look like, right? It's this joyful. Yeah. you start with, you can make it easy and start with, like I have the people like pick an energy level that you want and like you can pick. So, you if it seems too hard, get easier, right? So think of.
make it easy to be successful because that feeling of success is what counts. It's like, wow, I just had really high quality communication about this low, this amount of energy. That's a win because now the horse understands the system of you ask, they do something, they ask you how they did, you tell them how they did and you know, it's a win and it's not associated with hard work. So we just, it's just, I just want to check, would you do it if I asked?
And if horse goes, sure, then you go, great, you don't actually have to do it. I just want to know you would. And we build that in until the horse is feeling really great about offering energy. Now, like I said earlier, now you have the mental and emotional. Now we can play with, how long can we sustain it? Long enough that we stretch the limit, but not so long that the horse regrets offering it. And so that's the game. But I think to have a protocol where students can have a system for becoming successful.
all by themselves with nobody else watching, just them and their horse. Like that's what we want. We just want the feel like we have an idea. We ask our horse, the horse goes, sure. Like that's it. That's the dream. Yeah. Yeah. And this way it is way more thoughtful because the horse, they do understand that if I, if I go off of a subtle suggestion and I go now, I don't have to do as much or I might eventually get to stop. now they're thinking about present and future.
So much of the time people are operating with horses in such a way the horse is just avoiding some sort of discomfort. And when you think about how sad that is, and we all did it to some extent probably at some point in our life, but we need to get a horse thinking about the future. And then, and then therefore they're mindful of us in the present and they're with us. then they actively participate because they know that there's something. It's a much deeper, from all levels, this is a much deeper way to,
talk to your horse and for your horse to, it really is communicating. And so by bringing it to people's attention, they're noticing all kinds of changes that their horse is making and changes within themselves as well. So you're really getting people more aware of what their horse is thinking and feeling. Yeah. And it's, what's really fascinating sometimes is the, you like I said earlier, that so many problems come from the horses going, did that thing mean something? Was that for me? And when you start getting,
When you start raising your standard in the conversation of like, I'm thinking of exactly this amount of energy. No, that was like 90 % of it. Like I'm looking for a little more, even though it feels like a lot of times feel like, that's being hard on them. Like, no, no, pick an easy energy, but be precise about it until the horse starts to realize, whoa, this, like they really mean something. Like they're, they can feel the difference between like a sixth level energy and a five level energy, like becomes meaningful.
Sometimes that alone is enough to access the energy because the horse isn't sitting there going, They never, you know, they're just, they say, they ask a question I don't answer, and then they just go on with their life. Like it just becomes boring. So that when you can make it interesting by playfully raising your standard of communication, the horse starts to go, wait a minute, you're a brilliant conversationalist. Right. And it's, so it's, it, it's not necessarily about dominance. It's just about.
their relationship. you know, we all have to be, there's moments of, I'll say firmness of like, you know, there's boundaries. Like if the horse is about to step on me, I'm going to put up a firm boundary. You know, there's moments for that, but it's for very basic things, very surgical. And that's, think, as I get more and more experience and more time with horses, the number of times I have a firm, I have a firmness, it's very precise. It's not related to doing more work.
It's usually related to boundaries sort of things, you know, and the basic like move your fun and move your back and back up stop, wait. That I feel like is, that's a normal horse thing to be firm about. That's what they're firm about with each other. But I won't be, I'll be firm for like a step of that, but not firm about like, no, I want you to stay in that canner pirouette because I said so. Because now I'm being, you know, firm and when they do it, it's hard work.
I want it's like, if I'm going to ask to be firm, like I want it to be easy. And they're like, okay, that wasn't so bad. You know, and that's what builds the trust and the relationship so that the, they want to offer more of the hard work because you've built this. And if there's a time that I need something from them now for some reason, I don't know why, but β they're more likely to go, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to dig in here for you. But it's the relationship that builds from, from the bottom up.
So what is your favorite thing to do with your horses right now? Like if you're just to go out to your horses and have just, let's say a half hour, 45 minutes and it's, you know, it's going to be magical. What's, what's your favorite thing to do? Well, I got a little sidetracked and I just ended up going out there with them and I just went around smelling their necks and muzzles. That's really what I did.
My God, the smell of their muzzles, like the smell of like grass and sunshine and dirt all mixed together. So I just go smell their muzzles. That's so relatable. think almost for its people. Seriously, like I, it's so funny. Maybe it's age thing. I just, I just enjoy like just being with them and in the mornings they all come up near the barn and it's sort of a
We call like barn party and they all can come in and out as they please. And this one wants to go in the stall and that one wants to come out. This one wants to snuggle. This one grabs the toy. So really like if I only have a few minutes, I'll just go in the horse's space or invite them into the barn. And I just hang and watch what they do. And what's really fun is when they start offering.
Right, so they have different toys. like Ovation will pick up this one tray and walk around with it I put a treat in it. Then he puts it down and eats out of it. And Atomic will pick up the little thing I play catch with him with. And they'll come over and start my young horse Cora. She learned backing up really makes me happy because she's a little precocious. So she'll come up to me and then she'll like walk back a few steps. And she's like, oh, did you see that? She walks up and she's like, watch me backing up. So I love enjoying just being with them where
They're, they are asking to interact and they're offering to do some things that I've, I taught them to do, but they're like, let's do this, let's do this. So I joke around that my horses have lots of different cues for me to give them a cookie. And I just think it's hilarious that they'll go, they're like, this little character get me a cookie and he'll do this like little neck stretches by himself. He like, you see me? I'm doing my neck stretches.
Like, just, like that because that feels like at the end of the day, they think I'm cool to hang out with. And that's the biggest compliment that they could be anywhere and they're in there hanging out with me. So I feel like that's the stuff that just makes me feel good on the inside. And yeah, you know, a Piafer Passage or bridalist scanner through the field is pretty fricking cool too. But if I had to pick one thing, just hanging out with them.
Yeah. And I think that you're talking to sort of the B word, the balance when we talk about horsemanship, because you might hear feel and timing and balance. And a lot of times people think balance is physical and it could be, but maybe it's what you just described that maybe you have to have a balanced throughout the week sessions where you're with their horse, just being with them. And we're not asking something of them and being work to them.
And so maybe we had a session where we asked a little more of them and then, and then we come in the next day and let them in, have some grain rub on them, brush on them a little bit. Have them train you. But let them understand that I'm not always work. Yeah. And that feels really good to me too. The more I do that, I used to think I'm not doing anything, but I couldn't, couldn't have done further from the truth. Yeah. And again, it comes back to like, you get to create the relationship and the dream you have with horses. I mean, my.
Dream has definitely shifted, you know, as time has gone by and I'm, you know, some of my horses are getting older and so am I. And it's, you know, I'm lucky I can, I have horses I can do a lot with. Like I have three that are doing, can do upper level dressage stuff and three that I can just hop on and ride bridalists and bareback at any moment. And, you know, and I can do the silly tricks. So I know this is sort of a really golden moment in my life right now.
And I do try to balance, I do exactly what you said, Jack. It's like, that was hard today. Okay. So the next day. But the thing is sometimes like my horses love the, like when ovation is turning 22 this year and we do, I've kind of got his week scheduled. So we do dressage once for sure, maybe twice a day where we're doing this like full on, you know, we're in the dressage, we're mean and doing stuff. But sometimes like he wants to do more. Like he, he feels proud of it too. So.
The physical isn't always the, it might be hard physically, but it's also healthy for them to build that core strength and support their joints. So it's really about each, each individual horse. And yeah, I keep measuring. It's like, I feel like I got the mental, the emotional, physical, like a little equalizer and I've got those little knobs to turn. And maybe this week we go on a little physical quest to learn a skill and coordination and then, maybe I need to balance that out and do something else. And for me, just.
realizing I can do, well, I like everybody else, can do whatever we want. So I'm not going to feel bad if I skip some dressage days and I'm not going to feel bad if I do some dressage days. So I just look at the horse and are they ready to do it again? And how cute are they? And sometimes I'll call my friend David Lichman and we'll make a video of our animals playing musical instruments. We made a musical video with this.
is animals and my animals playing different instruments. So like we do that. Yeah. I'd like to thought that I would like to like that too. I can send you the link to that. It's on YouTube. I will send you the link. You know, we spend, we do, spend so much of our lives where we think we need to do it a certain way or we need to think we need to do it like this because maybe it's our age or maybe just for whatever reason. And then we, ask ourselves, is it, is it fun? How does it feel?
And at least you're keeping that part real because without that, and I talked to lot of professional trainers, you know, β every month and I know which ones are kind of having fun and which ones aren't, can tell, but keeping it, keeping it to where there is that feel behind it and that feeling good with your horse. Sometimes that's all we really need, at least for me. Yeah. You know, I already once in my life went from being a normal dressage trainer and then started doing things differently and had everybody tell me I was.
not a real dressage trainer anymore and was doing things wrong. mean, you know, picture, but in the late nineties, dressage and natural entrepreneurship were, I mean, I had never heard of it. So, I mean, it wasn't, it was opposite ends of the spectrum. So I know what that feels like to do something that other people think are weird, is weird and go, I don't care. I'm having fun. And so that, I think that has to keep evolving because, you know, then you do what you do and, and you
as professionals, you put pressure on yourself. Like, now I'm supposed to be doing all this stuff and I have to, you know, if I don't get this result, it means I'm not, that's really strong, especially for instructors who care a lot and have a, you know, some personal standards. But for me, I think maybe because I did it once already, like I just have to keep evolving and I have to keep reminding myself I can do whatever I want with my horses. If I'm happy and I'm not hurt.
If I'm not hurting anyone, that's the key. I can do what I want. And it's, it's just fun. That's what it's supposed to be, right? It's supposed to be safe and fun. we could do those two things first, think we're going somewhere. Yeah. Well, Karen, thank you so much for being a part of the fair for inspiring us to create the fair through your, through your program. And if you could let people know.
where they could find you. Sure, yeah. I'm easily findable just by Googling my name or dressagenaturally.net and you can really find everything there. There's a lot on that website. Feel free to poke around and we're always happy to get emails from people. So you can just go right to the contact us page and go, hey, where should I start? And we even do free private consults. So you can book a time and my number one assistant.
Shauna will listen to you and hear what's going on with you and your horse. And we can recommend exactly the best place to start and give you some advice. So we love talking to people. So drasajnatchally.net is, and there's some free videos you can get. So a lot on there, but hopefully we've made it easy for people to reach out and get started. Yeah. And if you visit Karen's bio page on the website, all her links are at the bottom. So you can just click on over and.
and check out her site and well thank you. you guys for doing that. mean, I know I have a little hint of the amount of work it takes for you guys to do what you're doing here. So I just wanted to thank you for putting in the effort. It's and you've been doing it year after year and really helping students and helping the professionals get out there. And so I just wanted to make sure you guys had a big thank you for doing what you do because it's you do it really well and you've made it really easy for me as a
present you as one of the professionals. So yeah, well done. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.
