Paula Curtis (00:42)
Today we're here with Jenny Pym, creator of Equestrian Tai Chi and pioneer in helping riders connect with their horses through energy and presence. Jenny's work is rooted in Daoist philosophy, where horses are seen as naturally aligned with the realm of the Dao, attuned to nature, flow, and timelessness. In contrast, we humans often live in the realm of mankind, full of structure, pressure, and disconnection. Jenny helps riders bridge these two worlds so two hearts can truly meet.
And we can't wait to explore this with you here today, Jenny. So welcome. It's great to have you here and great to have you as a part of the fair. Thank you so much. And it's lovely to see you here, Jack and Paul. And thank you for asking me. I really appreciate it. And thank you for actually reading that out. so this is really an understanding that I came to after many years, because I always felt that horses were different to us in the way they understood energy.
that they were so sensitive to energy. They were more sensitive to equestrian Tai Chi practice than humans are, and they're more affected by it. And also they're very sensitive, as I'm sure you both know, to emotions, to our emotions and to how we're feeling and even what we're thinking. So this led me to, and they can really...
almost understand what we're thinking or feeling and we affect them very much with our presence and how we are. And this led me to really look into, I think, of why this was and eventually it came to me and it was from something in the I Ching really, this is an old Daoist philosophy book, and that there's two ways of being in the world and one is in the realm of the Dao and that's universal consciousness where
It's like the spiritual essence of the universe where there is something that unites us all and it's a type of flow that we can learn to tune into and follow and do what we feel is right at the time and adapt to circumstances. So it's not really being fixed and premeditated that we might want to do with all our planning and everything. We can still do that to an extent, but it's just how to react at different junction points in your life to circumstances.
and even every day and really go with the flow. And horses seem to be really like that. You know, they're very spontaneous and they react to what's in front of them in a way. so, so if people, so if people in the realm of mankind, people's energy bodies are very much more open. So they're more enlightened in a way. They can sense out further so they can sense emotions further and thoughts further because
We have different energy bodies that go out from us, extend out from us to different extents. And horses' energy bodies seem to be more open than ours. And that is really the conclusion I came to from the two world principle. So we're more in the realm of mankind, so we're more closed down. So we don't have open energy fields like the horse does. And I think it's so noticeable when you watch horses out in a field because
They'll be out in a field and there can be things and we can tune into this too, but I'll notice that they'll be grazing and they will notice things that are going on. maybe a mile or two away. You know, a dog, a dog is working and they can, they can hear it and they can tap in and feel what's going on with that dog. And you'll see them react in ways and with horses, it's a feel as well. So it's not just hearing the dog, but it might be feeling that energy, but
They have to be that way because in order to survive in nature, they need to be very aware of what is going on at all times around them. And if it's danger or if it's safety and then they have to react in turn to that. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that is, I mean, that is, that is totally true. And another thing about horses and the Dow.
is that horses are from nature. And another word for nature or the Dao is Daziran. And that means great nature. So they're a part of nature. And I suppose they're designed to live in it and to survive in it. I mean, maybe all animals have these open energy fields, you know, more than we do, foxes and rabbits, all the wild animals do. And it's us that are closed down. Yeah. I mean, it's apparent that
That's the case with horses. You have like the seasons or like in the springtime or the winter, the horses get kind of excited and they have a lot of energy. There's sort of these shifts that way, you know, as far as energy goes, horses are interesting because like their perception, their ability to sense things like I remember, and I've heard other people, in fact, your parents as well that also have a boarding farm. We used to have a boarding farm. There'd be certain borders that would drive in and the horse is new.
when their owners were driving in the driveway. And you know, somebody would say, well, they see the car. It's no, not necessarily. That might be like a corral or a paddock around the corner. And that person might just be walking out of the car and coming and you'll see, cause I would do chores and stuff and I could see a change in the horse and I could see something happen. And then, and then the owner would come and sometimes it's negative. Sometimes it's positive. Sometimes the horses are happy. You know, they sense the owners were coming and then you've got like storms.
where horses are part of nature. Yes. Like storms where all of a sudden, you know, like my horses are acting up and I'm like, think there's a storm of Bruin, but they are part of nature. And I try to explain that to people. hard for us to understand because we live in these well boxes, you know, our cars and our houses and it's warm and it's climate controlled and we're not part of nature. We're disconnected. And then we, come to work with our horse and
Yeah, they're like at a different level sometimes than we are. We have to get, we have to get back to get back to that point. And you help people with just that. So you have to tell us, tell us all about it. Oh, no, that's, no, that's very true. Well, you know, everything, Jack, what you said there, it really is. And the way they adapt to the seasons and the flow and everything. And that's interesting that they didn't even know, you know, it wasn't the car and everything. They knew the person was coming. So Paula, so what I do is I teach a question in Tai Chi. So this is Tai Chi that I developed.
for performance on horseback. And I started this by chance. I think I actually started this when I bought a mare and she was meant to be in foal and then she wasn't in foal and I was so excited she was going to have a foal. So I rode her instead and I was teaching Tai Chi down in Wexford. I live in County Wexford and I was teaching Tai Chi down in the town in Wexford. So I'd run through and I had little children, very busy like I'm sure you know. And so I'd practice my evening class, you know, on the pony.
before, on Colleen, that was her name, before I'd go down to Waxford. And I noticed that she really enjoyed it. And then when I started teaching, I noticed that the ponies enjoyed it and the people did too, but the horses reacted more. you know, people were saying, well, it's because they have to drive afterwards. You know, they can't really relax. The horse just can relax, doesn't have to worry about anything. But it seemed to be more than that. And so, so then this, this all sort of led me to, you know, that
the two world thing. so Equestria and Tai Chi, what it does is it balances our energy and it balances our horse's energy together. So Equestria and Tai Chi is designed just to practice when the horse is standing still, because the horse can feel our energy when we move it in his body. He can feel a flow in his body and all of the movements have yang parts. So this is a yang part when it goes up. And then when it comes back to you, it's a yin part.
So we balance our yin and yang energy with our movements. And this relates to, as well, different aspects of our being, to how we feel internally. That would be yin, how we feel about ourselves inside, and yang, how we feel about going out and exposing ourselves, and how to sort of find a balance so we can live our lives so that we're able to go out and at the same time sort of...
nourish ourselves inside, an off-sleep best, you know, downtime, time, but still be able to go out and work and play and, you know, have fun, go to parties, play tennis, you know, live a life outside as well as our internal life. And then as well as that, I developed in a way from a question I actually developed what I now call Dowriding. I've called it lots of different names and the latest and it's been that for about a year is Dowriding.
And this is because one of the most exciting things I think I noticed was feeling my chi flow riding and then how tuning into the horse through that we had a connection and how chi became the medium for our connection. And then we could learn to give aids to the horse through energy. So energy was something that was common in both of us. our physical bodies aren't common, you know, we're separate in them.
But there is energy inside us and that is the Tao that is common to both of us. And in a way we can connect through this. So our emotional energy and our mental energy that is separate in a way, although the horse can sense it because he's so sensitive. But there is something inside us that is the same and that is the stream of energy that is the essence of the universe. And that is what Tao is called, the Tao. I mean, this is all
According to Taoist belief, I'm sure other people have their own beliefs, but it's based on Taoist theory, really. so then, so that is Tao riding. So that's one thing, one thing that I developed as well, or I'm still am developing it. And then another thing that I like to do is help people to get rid of blockages. So blockages are things that stop our chi flow and they, fixate on them and they really control our lives.
So they become our ego. So a whole big collection of blockages builds up and forms our ego. And Dallas believed we could have like thousands and thousands of blockages. And so this is part of being in the realm of mankind. So we're really dominated by our ego, our, you know, the blockages in our unconscious mind, and they drive us. So the idea is that we let go of all of our blockages and then we can go with the flow. So live life as we were born to live it.
not as we were conditioned to it, you know, to live maybe by our upbringing or how to sort of live our life in the world and get through it without being afraid of it, but yet without exposing ourselves to danger, just to live in balance in our lives. So that is, so another thing that I like to do is about teaching to or helping people to let go of their blockages riding.
and on the ground as well. think that it's interesting because we are living our life through the mind, which has a lot of little egos going on, right? It's the way we've survived since we were children. We had to fit into the world and we had to reject because it didn't quite fit. And so that was our way of navigating our reality. And so when we come to our horses,
it's very different because they're not in the mind, they're in this, this field of flow and they're not having to think about, you know, tomorrow or yesterday, they're really present and in this moment. And so then when we come in and we're living from these blocked places, I'm sure energy feels to the horse, very disunited. And, and so that instead of that
field feeling like it's a nice flow, it kind of has ripples and, you know, purr-ance and things that show up to the horse where it makes them second guess and wonder what we exactly mean maybe in any given moment. What are some simple exercises or things that you could give our viewer just here today that they could try maybe with their horse the next time or even as they're watching the video here that
could help them connect with their horse a little better where they're maybe not in the mind so much or in the ego so much. That's very well said. Everything you, you know, is really good what you said there, Paula. Thank you for saying that. You know, it's very, very clear. You know, you really have an understanding of that and how we affect our horses. So if this will my favorite exercise to begin everything with is really how to feel our chi. Where we make a little chi ball, would you want me to?
Yeah. Should we do that? Can you see me? Oh, you can't. Yeah, I'm going to play with it. Yeah. OK. So we're just going to make a little chee-bowl. So if you just have your hands a little bit apart, and then horses like when they can sense our energy. So they will notice something in our hands. So if you just keep your hands a little bit opposite each other, with the center of your palms opposite each other.
all the time. And if you like what you can do as well is you can drop a little piece of your awareness down into your lower Dantien and that is your main energy center to do with your physical body. If you can drop a piece of your awareness down maybe you might be able to sense this energy center. It's about three or four fingers below your navel in the center of your body. So this is to do with all of our physical, all the physical channels and all the physical organs in our body, everything.
to do with our physicality, physical aspects of our body. Sorry, I was thinking about channels there for a minute. So we're just going to move in and out and then see if you get a feeling of anything between your hands. So can you get a feeling between your hands? What can you feel? I feel warmth and a little bit of, it's almost like fresh, yeah, like energy seems like not the right word. Almost like a gelatinous fluid, maybe. don't know. It feels a little bit, does it feel a little bit thick?
A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, that's very good. So you can feel warmth. These are all Qi sensations. And what can you feel, Jack? Yeah. I mean, Paula kind of, it's almost like the sensation of something being there. It's warm or exactly gel-like. Sometimes I call that like sticky toffee. It's like you can pull it apart and then press it together again. Or it can be like an accordion either. You know, you can just pull it out and pull it in and get it.
type of connection. So that's a little exercise that people can practice with their horses. And if they like to sink their awareness down into their lower dantian, this is, you know, about three or four fingers below your navel, navel towards the center of your body. And then after this, so what we do is we seal our chi. So you put one hand over the other on this area, and that will help to store the energy that you've been making.
So your lower Dantian is like a reservoir for your energy. And horses love when we practice this, it'll exercise with them and it's calming for them as well. Yeah, that's great. I could really feel that. Can you feel anything in your lower Dantian or can you get a sense of it there? I feel like a tingling and almost a joyous feeling. Good. That's very good. Yes. Excellent. Yeah. Can you feel anything like that, Jack? Or what can you feel? Yeah, I'd say, I'd say Paula.
kind of summed that up pretty similar, definitely. Awareness. Yeah, and aliveness or something. Right, there you go. Yeah, yeah. Because our energy in a way has consciousness. So it is aware that we're aware of it. Yeah. So everything really can be aware. So that's, that's super. Yeah, yeah. That's interesting for sure. Yeah, horses are I mean, you can be, you know, you could be outside in a herd with horses.
And, you know, maybe I'm cleaning up after my horse or something like that. And I'm still somewhat aware, but you know, sometimes there'll be horses off in the distance. Yes. And, and their, their life will come up, their energy will come up before they move. And you'll know, like people turn and look and it'll be before they hear it. A lot of times you'll see, I'll see that. Yes. it's, it's interesting. Horses are very much just, they're, they're so just integrated. Yes. It's the nature. Absolutely. And if people could just.
understand that, that like if they came to the barn, if they slow down and became their whole self. And you know, we always talk about starting with observation and I mean, literally putting a chair for some people and don't live in that chair forever though, but you know, put a chair by the fence and observe your horse. Yes. You know, and start there and try to like mesh together or sink together as opposed to here, I'm at the barn. Now training horses is harder.
Because I like, I still train horses for people. So I have a certain amount of time that I have to get done. So there's still a timeframe, even though you have to be flexible and adjust to fit the something that I'll do is I'll work with multiple horses at once where they can all see each other. So different pens and they can see each other like a round pen, then my arena. And then say there's a paddock next to the arena. So I'll saddle up a young one, let it be.
And then I'll go work with another one and maybe I'll sit on one if it's a young one and then I'll dismount and I'll leave the arena. I'll go. And I love to watch the horses when I leave and I work the other horses. I love to watch the other ones and how that works. Yeah. And it's neat because they're all in class. They all stay tuned in. Yeah, is like they're in class. Then when I turn,
and I come towards the next horse, the reactions could be interesting. Cause if it's a horse that I'm working with for the first time, they might go, here he comes again. And if it's a horse that knows me, they might put their head low and go, come on in and rub on me, Jack. If I'm working in one area, one arena, and that horse gets lively and energetic, the other horses are all looking and feeling and sensing it.
I know, it's just, really interesting. I try to work a lot with explaining the horse's energy level or life. Those are the two best words that I can't think of a better word for that, for that internal energy or that liveliness and its spirit is in there. It's all in common. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And that idea of like, horses can be playful. Horses can be emotional. Horses can be, you know, they're made to, they're,
they're created to run if they're scared, right? So like the energy or the life, that's the hardest part to teach people. Yes. But it's, probably the most, cause we're all up in here. we're all, Jenny's talking about. being integrated and part of nature and built in and how do you get people to stop and slow down and become, especially trainers? How do you get them to become more like that? Slow. So especially trainers, I think.
What you're saying about time is very interesting, know, but you have to you do have to get things done You know if you're working happening to produce something or a horse, I don't mean something to do something for other people There is a type of pressure involved but there is something called fourth time or the real time of the Dow and This is the sense of timelessness that horses have so the Dow does not have a time You know, it doesn't say oh my god. Well, maybe it might
have a slight, no it doesn't, it has its own time. It doesn't sort of think it's six o'clock, I'm just going to go and eat something now or whatever, but it knows what to do according to the seasons and everything. It sort of just reacts and goes by the seasons. The horses have this timelessness, so they don't have the pressure of time. And I have a little picture actually that explains the two hearts beat as one. And I have a little alarm clock running in that. And that sort of
is trying to explain that we have the pressure of time. So we live by the past, the past, the present and the future. And these are not in the Tao, in the time of the Tao, except they are because the Tao can contain everything. Sorry, that might be a little bit confusing, but it does have its own. When we're in the past or the present or the future with our horses, then we're not in the real time of the Tao. So that's the good indicator for us to say, if we're with our horses, if we think,
I better go riding. my God, I'm only half an hour. I'll just go anyway or whatever. That's pure pressure for the horse. You know, he's immediately, you have no time for me and I'm going to have to be saddled up quickly and everything just because you have no time for me. And you're sort of in a way, it's offloading all the pressure of all the other things you have to do after you've ridden your horse that you just don't have time to do. So the horse is now being subjected to your time pressure. So I think that is one way is just trying not to be.
And maybe doing things like you do, it's working lots of different things at the one time, but you're only working one horse. So, I mean, you're saving time, but they're still all in learning from each other and watching the others being trained and sort of maybe having fun. Well, I don't know if they were not, you know, by watching, you know, thinking about the others, but what you're saying there about how they they're reacting. So that's one thing is try not to be pressured by time and to allow enough time. I, know, I would be the definitely the worst person in the world to
to be like that, you know, because I just don't have, you know, I just can't sort of organise things in a good way to get things done on time. So I need to focus all the time to try and do this. So that's one thing. And then another thing I think would be to remember that horses really, once we come into their presence, their etheric fields are very open and all of our emotions, our thoughts, everything that we have inside.
come out into our Artheric field and it's possible that they can just sense them. So when we come up to them or a bit near them, you know, they can sense the different blockages in our Artheric field. And all of these have different, you know, vibrations, like you're talking about, Paula, about the energy being feeling different. So the energy, so it's really by the vibration of the energy, you know, that they can sense things. So it's just to remember that and maybe
You know, not to sort of use our horses as things that we can, you know, go to my horse. To not be a little bit aware that they're not just a thing we can dump things on. Do know what I mean? Say if you had a little child and you had to give your little child to somebody to mind for the day. You know, that you didn't really know this person that well. But if you thought about what sort of person would you give your little child to?
you know, to let them mind. Well, obviously, check them out, make sure they're okay. But you know, it's that type of, if we could be the type of person that would, you'd feel safe to leave a child minding, or, you know, that the child would feel safe with them, feel comfortable with them. There, I mean, there are two, is that two things? But there are just some ways, I think that, you know, just to remember, they are so sensitive and the pressure of time, where everybody is, you know,
The world is very pressured nowadays. You know, when you see all the awful things going on in the world, like we're so privileged to just be sitting here talking like this. but the world is very pressured nowadays with just everyday life, trying to cope and get everything done and survive. know? At the old place, our old farm, would have, I did a lot of lessons and I would have clients that were like business people sometimes come in and they were always in a hurry. And it was like,
that idea of timelessness or getting in the moment. you're having fun, you're in the moment and time goes quick, right? Time flies having fun. When you're scared, if a horse is spooking, people are in Now that's a little different feeling. don't want them to have that feeling necessarily, but I needed them to become more in the moment. so fun,
would be the way that I think I would do it. And so I do maybe exercises. And as we did exercises, depending on the horse, I'd let them talk and they would tell me about their day or their life or whatever, but they'd really open up and that would get them into the moment again. And I realized like, that was like the goal. That was like my one goal that if I got the human being to come to the barn and to slow down and to get into the moment with their horse, then they would gain, something would be gained.
Yes, absolutely. like if they came, because for me, sometimes I always try for more, more, more, more. And so when I teach, sometimes I think I need to teach a lot. And if I were to give those people a lot of information, they're already coming to the barn, scrambling, thinking about past, present and future all at the same time. And here I am and they're not more having more, doing more. And all of sudden they're not having fun. So they don't want to, you know, so that's, that's the thing is.
And then they're like the horse again, like you said, because the horses, they're just in the moment. That's where they live. And if the human can get there, then maybe when, the person goes back to work after the lesson or something, maybe they can become more in the moment and slow down or something. Maybe, maybe that's the, but I realized like for me, that was like the goal. That was like the main goal of, of adults. Kids are a little different, but. ⁓
That's a great, that's an absolutely great goal, you know, a great way of doing it as well to, you know, draw them out of themselves and talk about themselves and forget about their immediate worries. And that all kinds of interesting people. I think, well, and again, we're lucky because if I weren't for horses, I probably wouldn't have met those people. wouldn't know I wouldn't have met those people. Yes. But I wouldn't really ask them about their life. I would always talk about the horses and now.
We're working on what do you see? What do you feel? trying to bring them back to the present, but then, but then they just, the way people, they open up then and then they talk to you and not necessarily that I was asking for them to talk to me, but that just opens up because they feel that they're in a space that's your energy's mesh. You're available. You feel good and open and present and they talk and it's absolutely. No, that's great. mean, that was a great way of doing it. They feel safe to share really.
That's exactly what you're working on is you're doing the same thing from the human to the horse, making the horse feel safe. Because when the human drops into this space, it feels right to the horse. And I'd love for you to highlight your fair presentations because I think there's going to be some great tools for people to experience this, this feeling of being in the Dow. Okay. So.
I think one of them is about our heart mind. this is about, no thank you for saying that, Fola. This is about how our intention can come from our heart mind. So our heart mind is in the center of, Daoists believe the location of our heart mind is in our middle dantian. So it's here near our heart, but in the exact center of our body, in the middle of our body, in the center. Our heart, I think, is a teeny bit more to one side.
And this, you could think of this as the location of the Dao in us and in our horse as well. But this is a place where, this place is also to do with all of our relationships with everything in the whole world, in the universe, with ourself, with our horse, with animals, trees, plants, the moon, stars, everything. So this area is to do with relationships and it's also to do with our emotions, our higher type of emotions. And so we can have
Intent that comes from our heart mind, so it's a deeper type of intent that comes from our heart mind. And then we can have more conscious intent that comes from our Yi mind. So this is more like our conscious mind. So it's really that if we want something and it's aligned with the Tao and what we're meant to do in our life with our essence here as well, then it's
it will have a deeper intent, you know, it comes from a deeper space and it probably has more access to deeper emotions, deeper thoughts, more help to us from inside ourselves. And the other one is about us connecting really with our essence, connecting with our essence inside ourselves. So we have our essence is regarded as being our seventh energy body. It's called the body of individuality and then the
We have the body of the Tao and this is our eighth energy body. So we can experience the energy of our own essence when we practice equestrian Tai Chi. So it's to do with the theory of Tai Chi and Taoism and Taoist cosmology. So everybody has an essence. Trees would have an essence, you have an essence, or different things have an essence.
And then as you live your life, do yin things and yang things, going out things, coming in things. And the idea is that you balance your yin and yang energy, your outward and your inward actions and thoughts, all of these aspects. And then you can return to your human, you can return to your spiritual essence and live your life as a human being spiritually, really.
It's we can experience the feeling of our essence in between the yin and yang movements of Tai Chi. So if I do a yang part, this is the yang part, and then I go into a yin part, and then I can just experience my essence in the transition.
point, the feeling, I've got a feeling of it there, in the transition point between the Yin and the Yang. So it's the merging of the smoothing of the energies, just merging, and then you can experience your essence. And you can get to the energy of the Tao as well. So that's what the presentations are about. Thank you for asking. great.
I think people are going to enjoy them. It's fun playing with energy with horses because they're great feedback for us. Yes, absolutely. Definitely. absolutely. That's the joke. So great to have this conversation with you here today and great to have you as a part of the fair. Well, thank you so much for asking me. I appreciate it. Appreciate it so much, Paula and Jack. I really do. Thank you. And it's so interesting talking to you both and.
You both have a great understanding of energy and well done for all you're doing really to highlight the horse and the human and our relationships and all you're doing with this. It's really wonderful. Thank you. that.
