Paula Curtis (00:42)
Today we're here with Gary Whiting and he's going to be talking to us all about Shiatsu massage and that's right, Shiatsu massage for horses. So Gary has spent a lifetime lending Eastern bodywork techniques with equine athletic performance. His groundbreaking work has helped countless horses and riders feel and move better from strength training to pioneering equine massage techniques. Gary has a wealth of knowledge to share and I'm really excited to have him here today.
And thanks a lot, for doing the interview and being in the horse fair this year. We really appreciate it. we sure do. Thank you. Appreciate you asking me to come on. And you've been a, you've been part of the fair for, for years now. So we appreciate all your, all your contributions and we'd love to hear more about your journey and what got you to the place where you're now practicing shiatsu massage on horses and, and other animals as we spoke.
on the who used to, her and her husband had Massage Magazine years and years ago when I first got into this. And she would tell me about you and I go, oh, I'd to get involved with these folks. So I did. So it all started, I'm...
See if I can really condense this down so I don't lose anybody from boredom. So, all right. So back in 1961, I started lifting weights. 1963, I went to Washington DC and I became a personal trainer. I was at the Naval School of Music. It was very rare to find a musician that was a bodybuilder into power lifting. Well, that was me.
And then I received, got a following in 1963 while back in Washington, DC. 1981, I started studying the art of frost fiber. I started working with a chiropractor. He had little wooden tools and I would go and break up the adhesions in the back of the neck and different body parts. And he'd come in, make the adjustments in the spine and pop, pop. They went really easy. And he said, you know, you need to start your own business. I said, no way. Only people who walk on water.
start their own businesses. had no confidence that I could do that. And in 1985, I heard about the artist Shiasa Massage. I was developing a race motorcycles at that time, BMWs, at that, well, I need to make extra money to buy the parts I'm developing. So I went to school Shiasa Massage. And 86, I graduated and I got involved with felony Bob Whelan, the double amputee, the walk across America, was armed, became Bob's trainer.
He'd already finished the walk across America. I joined Bob after he had done his first marathon in LA and New York. So I, ⁓ I did know Bob. I worked out with him before he did walk across America. And so then I finished school, contacted Bob. They will come on out to the track. I did, I worked on him and he broke his personal best training record that day. So you guys go to New York with me. said, all right. So we went to New York.
And we walked a 26.2 miles and I would work on them as needed. And which was quite often actually. And when we crossed the finish line, we, we, we finished it better than 17 hours from this previous year. Wow. So I don't know what you're doing, whatever you're doing. said, I've had body work, but I've never had anything like what you're doing. Well.
In LA, he was on the TV series, Sonny Spoon. It was a short run series and then they had a writer's strike. You may have seen her or something like seen that. He didn't train. He was doing speaking engagements in Washington state back on the set for his part and back to Washington back and forth. So no training time whatsoever. LA Marathon, mile marker five, he pulled the front right deltoid. Couldn't walk, put any weight on it. I said, come on, let's take you out. So I took him out. I repaired.
through the art across fiber is what I was doing on his shoulder. So I broke up those adhesions in his deltoid. hour and a half later, I said, okay, Bob, let's continue. So we did. And when we crossed the finish line, it was almost 19 hours faster than the previous year's time. And here we had that hour and a half out of the race. So then I was pretty well known in the industry because of Bob.
And I was being approached by fighters and trainers. And the next thing I know, I had a client that had been injured, horse related accident. And this is where the journey started. I had never heard of e-crime massage yet. other was such a thing. She said, when you get me fixed, I'd to do something with horses where I can make a living. I said, why should massage horses? Say that. And she said, I said, well, you should, you ever done that? I go, no, but it's no different than doing a person.
Body, muscle is muscle, bone is bone. Nutrition is nutrition. Emotions are emotions. so, make a short of the story here. Give me a horse's picture, profile back shot. She did. I went home that night, sat by my dining room table, took the horse and turned it up like a human. Do about meridian lines at the pressure point. Put the horse back down. said, human, horse. Human, horse. What's the difference? Well, one's this way, one's this way.
I said, if they're the same, then that's what I have to work on. So I worked on this lady's horse that following Sunday and the horse melted, fell in love with me and seemed to think I was the best thing since ice cream and to a kid. And so then I couldn't shake, could not shake. I felt so empowered, an animal that can, that fast, stuff you out, take your life. This thing was loving on me and melting in just like, yawning and.
Very animated. Well, I had 10 personal training clients at that time. I gave them all a 30 day notice. said, I'm going to let you guys go. I'm going to go to the horses. One of them was a cowgirl. She said, how are you going to get started in this? I said, no idea. She said, I can help you. I've got connections. So she took me to a clothing store. She said, okay, what's your pass size? go 31 31. So she gives me a 31.
I said, oh, no, no, no, it's too long. doesn't know that just rises. I don't even walking all over the heels of my boots. goes, exactly. I said, what do mean exactly? He says, well, you want to look like a cowboy, right? Well, why do I want long britches? She said, when you get in the saddle, so the pants will hike up on you. I said, I'm not going to ride these things. I did when I was a kid, I was in agriculture back in the 50s and 60s.
I said, I'm not going to ride these things. said, you got to look the part. got a cowboy hat. I got the buckle. I got the pants. got the shirt. got the, I got, I was, but I didn't have the attitude of looking in the mirror and say, I was embarrassed. anyway, so to walk on my cuffs, I did. And I went over to the Valley. worked on a barrel racing horse. Belong to Alma Peterson. Alma Peterson was 79 years old. Her horse, Beauty was a very good horse. And,
I worked on her horse, Beauty, not knowing what to expect. think I did, no, I did one session on Beauty. They went that weekend to a barrel race and Alma ran, get this, I'm not kidding you, a five second faster barrel time. And ⁓ Alma was 79, they just figured she was just slow because of her age and know, whatnot. And she was so, you had to help Alma up in the saddle to, ⁓
to get onto the horse, she couldn't get up on her own. She came back, just woo hoo, that was great. I said, we're going to to bulk over your rear end to the saddle, I keep doing this. So her daughter Charlene just was in, had a horse that was coming in dead last. And she said, I've been looking at another horse for $17,000, but I'm tired of coming in last, I might be able to fix your horse. So she said, okay, take a shot. I worked on a horse once, she went to Del Mar.
And she took a first. She went from dead last to first. So how many seconds were involved there? There might be seconds, four seconds. I don't know. And she came back and she was ecstatic. She said, I always knew this horse could move, but I didn't expect this. And so she didn't have to buy another horse. So that launched me into realizing that, wow, these horses working with world-class athletes. worked with the U.S. Olympic High Jump Team, track and field athletes. And they could tell me what was going on in their life, but the horses couldn't.
So I had to be able read what the horses were saying. I started realizing that what applies to the human applies to the horse. So I started my journey with confidence. I was seeing results. I got the nag from hell. It belonged to Pepper O'Shaughnessy down in Ohio. And I had no history on this horse, which was good because if I had the history, I would have been scared to death to go down and look at this horse. know, just getting started in this business, you...
don't know how much you know. So I went down and turned that horse around immediately. And the horse had a killer attitude. the horse story went Pepper told me the horse had reached over and grabbed the ranch hand over the fence by the clavicle and flung him through the air into the side of the barn. She said, then I've never been able to touch that horse's babies. None of them. I went, whoa. And she said, I'm impressed. This horse.
Now that's the end of Touch of Babies. I go to the next of hell. Then I worked on another big horse with Free House. I worked on Free House and he won the Santa Anita Handicap two months after I worked on him. He was going really crazy. His atlas was an issue. Now what causes atlas issues? Endless inner chatter. You can't shut your mind down. end of the atlas issues, you migraine headaches, you got vision problems, you got hearing problems. I knew this from working up people, horses get headaches.
And horses don't like their trainers, they're going to have at-liss issues. If they don't like the stall, the horse next to at a show, they're going to have issues. If they don't like something and they can't shut their mind down, they're going to have issues. So that's how I got into it. And I'll give you a little bit about what I would call my first impressive interaction with the horses.
Wow, that's fascinating. You have an incredible history and it's so diverse and the amount of change that you're seeing in these athletes from, know, when they start with you to after even just a session or two, that's astonishing. mean, that's, that's. Yes, it is. Now, not all massages is equal. The artist, asked who worked with energy, meridians, acupressure points. And so once you clear these.
meridians in the acupressure points, you can also pull out life's experiences. I've had horses go ballistic on me. totally unexpected. You might have to tell you one story. Please, please do. When I had my school up in my ranch up in Garland, California, horse by the name of Cherokee was brought in. We took him off the trailer, put him in the, in the stall. And he went nose first into the corner and at his back side to me.
I scoot over look at him and he sees me and goes all the way over to the other side of the corral, sticks his nose in and back to me and kind of looking at me. go, oh, I better work on this horse before my students do. So I, I was working on Cherokee and everything was going great. And I went to the other side of the horse. was going down line three on the brachycephalic muscle and I hit a point and he
He dropped his head and he blew. He went straight up in the air and backed up and went all the way to the back and banged his butt against the corral. So I went back and brought him back and just laid the lead rope over the rail. I hit that part again, went down, again. said, okay, third time, blow that part again, down, down, down. He closed his eyes. He just started licking and started yawning. I finished the session on him.
The students that I went into the house to get some pie and coffee or something like that. We came out, he came up to the reveal and he greeted us. Total, total change. Total change. Of course I've seen these changes with my human clients. So what's the difference? There is no difference. When I say there is no difference between a horse and a rider, mean, sorry, well, horse and a rider, there really isn't.
And bone is bone, muscle is muscle, emotions are emotions, and past problems are locked into our bodies and locked into the horses' bodies. So we can clear those into our shias to massage. as a human being, can also clear, I talk a lot in the academy about the heart. The heart is a brain. It's got 40,000 sensory nerve-rides in it. And then our brain, it will override the logic. Well, in the forgiving, like if we've been betrayed or something has happened to us,
We can forgive from here. Logically we'll do that, but it's still stuck in here. It has to be forgiven from here. And I've had people, I've worked on them and brought back memories and they start to cry and go, I thought I had forgiven him for that. I said, well, you did from here. If you haven't done from here, there's only one way we can do that. So I have a technique that I use that worked very well. When I would work with clients, like especially women that couldn't lose weight, no matter what workout program I put them on, what kind of diet I put them on.
I go, is an emotional issue. So I'll just go ahead and tell you what that technique is. Okay. I find out, yeah, my father didn't come to my graduation, but he's busy. understand. Okay. Yeah. You can't lose weight. You're harboring some emotions, know, uncriteria. There's things you haven't voiced yet. I say, have you told your father how you feel? No, but you know, I understand that yet. But have you told your father this? Well, So, okay. I want you to go home.
write a letter to your father with the opposite hand. This is the controller side. This is where we're at, it controls us. And we get frustrated writing a letter with our opposite hand. We go deep and pull the plant out by the roots instead of breaking it off on the surface, which is the controller side. So she came back, she says, okay, I did. And so I was reading a letter. said, well, read it to me. I can't read this. Try writing a letter with the opposite hand, see if you can read it. And see how frustrated you get.
It's slower than molasses in January. So I said, okay, good. said, now I want you to go home. I want you to put a picture of something of your father in a chair. I want you to stand up and I want you to read this letter to your father. Whatever is that chair is now your father. So she did. She came back and said, well, how do you feel? said, well, I feel pretty good. Next week she lost six pounds. after that, she lost another six pounds. Okay.
Here are the three words I coined in 1998 when I started the academy. No, the massage school. I went from a massage school to an academy. right. Emotion, dis-ease and disease. Break this word emotion down. E-space, motion, ease of movement. All right. A little cold. Gets the ground, gets some nutrients, it starts running around. Boom, boom. they pretty soon they stumble, they do things and they get better at running and then off you go. It's the same way with the human baby.
We start out, we're in this state of movement, this E-motion. Then we get better and better. Then things come into our life like mistakes we've made, we're told perhaps by our parents, you're not worthy or whatever it might be. Now we're, we're being altered to a state of dis-aged. We're not confident. We can't move like we normally would. We're thinking, well, maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe, you I was adopted. I can tell you all about not feeling good enough.
fighting and everything I did to prove that I was worth something. And there's a lot of people out there still trying to prove that they're worth something. Well, now we're in this state of disquies. If we stay stuck there long enough in disquies, the next stage is disease. All diseases come about as a result of emotion being altered to a lesser state. And so I've had the joy and the privilege and in some cases the honor of working with some people. I've had some pretty...
few horrible stories I've had to work with over the years. When it was done, I got a letter by a lady who was molested from age three to age 13 by her brothers and her father. I used to read that letter, I'd break down every time I would read it in class. But it just shows the monsters that live within us and those monsters can be released. And I've had the opportunity to do so.
Let's take that to the horse. There's some monsters that lie within that horse. I've had the opportunity on occasion to turn that horse around to where the horse wanted to be with me, wanted to be with people. That's a story of Cherokee. I wanted to find out that when they would try to put him in a trailer, they would beat him with two by fours to get him in. Well, that horse didn't join up.
Their horse didn't really want to be with you, so don't force the issue. there's got to be that joint. I had a horse given to me one time. I didn't know that they could never get him in the trailer. I went to pick him up. I walked in, he walked me right into the trailer and I walked out and the guy says, that's your horse. said, well, hey, you just gave it to me. I said, no, we've never been able to get him in the trailer. He has picked you. Okay, then take me back to energy.
I've had students I thought were going to be the best student I ever had, but they could not get the horse to want to be around them. I found out that they had, they were angry issues. I love it when I get students that come to my academy, the academy that have problems. I can send them home problem free, problems gone. And this is because of what I've learned before getting to the horse. So for me,
You know, what is it about the horse I love? It's what I can do for the horse that turns around and rewards me for being able to accomplish something so special. So for, for me, it's not really about me. It's really about the horse. The horse, the only thing the horse does for me is turn around after I work with it and respond to me saying, thank you. So it's a lot of people, a lot of people.
Well, get into the horse because they're trying to do something for themselves. I think those people need to come to my academy and learn how to do what I do. And then go back and do something for the horse. Then they're going to be satisfied because they are, they've done something very special. That's, that's beautiful and wonderful. And I, I think that now it's becoming more and more, I guess the awareness is, is far greater as to the amount of.
trauma and cellular memory, both in our down to our nervous system or just in our individual cells that is locked up in our bodies. But you discovered this really early on when you were seeing these changes, you knew intuitively that it was down to that cellular level that you had to release those traumas or those energies so that you could allow the individual to be.
best that they could be. Yeah, I, Freehouse, I mentioned Freehouse earlier. The first time I worked on Freehouse, he did, they gave him a cocktail to calm him down. I didn't work and he was going to do me in. That's all he had in his mind. Don't you dare touch me. And especially if I went into the Atlas, he was like, he was a big gray horse that, was a very much a handful. And, ⁓ it took me about 40 minutes to get his Atlas released where, and then he just gave it in.
Well, I came back two weeks later in a different vehicle than the one I had the first time I worked on him. He had not seen that vehicle. He could not hear my voice. There was a building, the barn, between me and the car. The car was about 75 feet away from where he was. And I hear all his ruckus in the barn. I said, huh, what's going on in there? I walk in and Felix says, free house. He knows you're here. I said, that's him. He says, he wants to see you. I don't know how Felix knew that.
But I didn't even know at the time. So I go in and I go where Freehouse was. He's he's running around outside on the inside of his little paddock there. If it had been a dog, he'd been wagging his tail. He was just so excited and so animated. I walked in and he came over and he threw his head over my shoulder. And I just reached up and I just held him. How did he know that that was me out there? How could he have known?
And that's, we talk about that our students a lot, that, you know, they can pull into the barn and be completely behind the barn and their horse in a paddock, you know, separate. And that horse already knows the emotional state that that human is in. You know, they can feel it in the field. Their hearts are so big and their ability to perceive what's going on through the field of their heart and, you know,
whatever else, they're able to pick up on those things and really tune in. I think, especially, you you made such a dramatic impact in his life. So he attuned his energy fields to yours. And he said, that guy, that's the one. I basically pioneered this industry back in, what I saw, 95.
And I did definitely pioneered the only horse and rider program because I put the two together and the two have to go together because it's a team. You and your horse are a team. So I'm thankful that my years of power lifting and bodybuilding and the things I learned over the years from others, reading, from trying things, from experimenting.
I often say the best science is the science that comes off the street. Doing something over and over and seeing it produces the same results. You don't need an institution to do that. The greatest institution is the street. learned a lot of stuff just by seeing it work. I people saying, you don't ever want to, you don't want why? Where did you hear that? I've been doing it all along with great results. And, you know, the latest science in high intensity training has now come out. The high intensity training is...
The ultimate, well, I was doing that 40 years ago. I didn't need, I saw it working on the street. I learned it from a named Mike Mincer, Mr. Heavy Duty, who learned from Arthur Jones, the inventor of Nautilus. And so I've been doing stuff on the street long before it ever got into the schools. And so the best science is what works on the street that keeps showing over and over. do it, you're getting the same result.
So my science and my degree really came off of, I did get a degree, a doctorate in original research in the holistic field. I can't really say it's valid because it is, but it isn't because it's not recognized by our system. But I did prove my point and I got results. I achieved a lot of things and I was recognized for it. And they created a degree for me, a doctorate.
And then I got a master's in business administration because I had a successful business. So even though it's not recognized, it's a better education because it comes from the street and it proves itself. That's where it all has to happen on the street. You get out of massage school, you haven't proved anything yet. You haven't proved anything and you get out there, let's put the rubber to the road. It's just like the movie Man for Snow River. Did you see that movie? Yes.
Remember when his father died and they ran him off the mountain is that you go down and prove yourself. You don't earn the right, but you earn the right just because you got a house, just because you've been here. No, you leave this mountain, you go down and you prove you're a man and then you come back. Well, that's where it should be, rites of passage. No, I like, I like the basically life experience. mean,
And I'm that way too. I, it's fine if I have a scientific understanding of something, but when I have repeat trials and this works and this doesn't work, that's good enough for me to, to, to say, I'm going to, I'm going to go on this route. And the horse is such a great teacher because they don't lie to us. People, you know, you might ask a person, how are you today? And they might say, I'm good. They're not good, but a horse tell you the truth.
And so when you work on a horse, it's like the ultimate gauge in yourself and how are you communicating, even like your muscle and body work that you're doing. The horse is such an obvious teacher. They tell you they like it, they don't like it. They might want to bite you or they love it. And then, and then the next time you walk up to them, you know what they feel about you and they are animals of feel and feeling. And that's what we all need to do more.
with each other is instead of having preconceived notions about this person, how do I feel around this person? And that's what horses do. So I love that you started with people and then went to horses. I think that's so cool because you've done both. And then to work on both together, that makes perfect sense to me. does. It's a team. I had an old cowboy one time, he went through the divorce and he broke his wife's arm and he's alcoholic.
problem and he saw me doing massage on the horses and he said, can you teach me that? go, yeah, I can. If you want to learn, said, no, I want to learn it. said, okay, John, want you to, this is what I want you to do. I walked up, I shook the horse's neck. I embraced the horse. I said, you see what I'm doing? goes, yeah. said, okay. I want you to hug the horse. goes, no, I can't do that. I said, yes, you can. No, I can't do that. He was studying a method, a horse stays there. I'm here. You don't get in my space.
And, uh, so he slapped the rope and the horse stands there. He's at attention. He's always thinking the horse is going to get me. Look at this voice that he's plotting against me. No, he's scared to death of you. What are you doing? He's paying attention to you because he doesn't want to get clobbered. I said, so John hugged the horse. says, can't do it. It took about 20 minutes. Finally, he hugged the horse. And, I can only imagine what was going through his brain at that time. said, what?
am I doing that? I don't do this. I don't show my emotions. Now that he must've had a soap opera there. And he actually turned out to be a great guy because he saw the horse responding to him. He goes, the horse wants to be with me. And I've had this happen numerous times where people would say, I teach them how to massage horse to go to the ranch or something. The horse likes me. The horse really likes me.
that go, hmm, interesting. Yeah. If you do the right thing, they're going to love you. If I do the right thing. And if your heart is right, I've had students that had no business working on horses. I see students out there. I see the industry actually going downhill in some respects. I say this on my website. The law school is coming along. And I saw a guy one time, he said,
I think I want start a school. You make a lot of money. go, no, that's not why you're doing it. so people who are not qualified have started programs. I thought I somehow qualified without a question, but I'm seeing students doing things with horses. The horses just want to get out of their stall. They don't want to be around that person. The person is doing, they think they're doing the right thing. You don't belong in there. If that were me, I'd probably clock you and knock you out. Get you out of my stall and throw you out.
So not, what's great about my program is I can help you get through your problems so the horse will want to be around you. Other schools are just going to teach you how to massage a horse. Well, you're allowed to get hurt and you're allowed to give the industry a bad name because you aren't worth the tinkers, you know what? So you come to the academy, we're going to work on you as well. We're going to talk about the heart. We're going to help you.
forgive some things where you got to be a person who liked yourself. It's huge. It's a horse and rider combination. It's the ultimate program. That's all I got to say. And we like that because we talk to, you know, horse professionals all the time. And at least what I feel are the good ones, the common denominator between all of them is we have to be aware of ourselves and we have to take care of ourselves first. So that cowboy, the story about the cowboy is you got him
to open up his heart and to feel great. And he became a nice guy. That's exactly what I mean. It's a life change. You mentioned he was divorced. whatever he had, he was scarred as a person. And so now he's looking at all the negatives in the horse. And obviously energy is reciprocated and the horse has to match our energy. And so he's going with that with people and you got him to feel grateful.
and maybe love. And so now he opens this up and now it changes his life. would love to see people rethink what they're doing. People have been emasculated. They've been put into a state of dis-ease and might even be in the disease stage. They're going to the horse, the horse to be healed, healing you. Well, there's a need for that, but they need to learn to help the horse and see the
how the horse comes out of it because what you did and have some self personal integrity and have some better feeling about themselves. This is the healer. When you go out, I did that. It said, I need this horse. No, this horse needs me. And that's the joy. What I do is these horses need me. And when I work on those horses, I expect to see them turn to me and not want me to leave. And then the reward is
what I was able, how I liked to charo-keep. I was able to free him of his fear of people. I wanted to buy that horse because the lady had died that owned it and her sister had it. And now this horse was a real social animal, just loved the students, loved being with me, couldn't get enough of us. And she said, well, no, I want to keep it from my sister's death and the memory. said, okay, then at least another horse. That's a horse I'll have a companion.
She said, no. I said, I got really angry. said, you really, I said, you have no idea what you're doing. This horse wants to be with people now, and you're going to stick it out on the field by itself. I said, that's cruelty. That is cruelty. And when I got down with her, she did not like me. I was angry because to hear this horse was turned around to where it wanted to be with people. now he said, we got you happy.
Now you're all for yourself. We're not going to give you any love and affection. We're not going to give you anything. I'd pay just about anything for that horse. Just say that horse from this lady and being stuck by itself with no one to express. You got to express emotion. You've got to be able to interact with, you know, and a lot of horses get shut down, a lot of people get shut down. That's part of the...
You know, I'd asked you for your, because of the horse statement. the, started the, well, I named the website because of the horse and the intention behind that was to, to fill in that thought because of the horse, my life is profoundly better. I, you know, I'm present and in the moment or there, there's so many things that we can be grateful for that the horses bring into our lives.
And if we can reflect on that and feel for what our horses give us, and we can be grateful and we enter into that relationship with them in a state of gratitude, well, the horses, feel that. And, and if we're stepping in, when you're in gratitude, you're, feeling love, right? You're feeling good, good emotions. And so that then is going to transform your relationship with your horse because now you're focusing.
Like that fellow, he was focusing on all the negative things and making corrections and you know, but instead if you focus on the good things, what you focus on is going to grow. And so if you're focusing on the things that you really appreciate about your horse, now you're going to start seeing more and more of those things come out. And that makes for better situation for both horses and people. If you get the human or the horse's heart, you've got the whole individual, the whole horse. I think if I were at...
Maybe I could say what I got from the horse is an opportunity. How the horse has helped me, it's given me an opportunity to take what I've been able to do and serve other people. So, and I need to be a teacher. I need to be giving to people. I cannot be a taker. don't. But when I was, I was adopted, was a year and a half old, like they got me from the orphanage. And by the time I was 20, by the time I was
20 years of age, I've been at 50 fights. I started all two of them. I was a very angry kid. My mother and father could not break me. They said, you broke us. We didn't know what we seen. We never saw anybody so stubborn. And I told my son, Rob, said, son, four most important words I ever heard in my life at age 20. This guy knew nothing about me. And I was in a, I just blurted out some nonsensical thing like I always do.
And I thinking myself, writing? You are stupid. And I flunked everything in school. I still cannot memorize. I'm going to internalize it. I learned best when I'm walking and thinking, not sitting there trying to get it in. I got to be moving, to be tactful, I got to be experiencing, got to bring in everything, got to be in motion, in movement. And I knew he was right. So that's when I said, okay, I'm going to start educating myself.
Then I realized something, I got embarrassed over it. said, okay, now I got to take the next step. That is make sure I say things that are correct, not just say things. So then I went out looking and challenging everything and anything that came along and I put it to the test and go, can I prove this wrong? Can I destroy it? Can I do whatever? What can I do? And there are some things that are consistently the same over and over. said, you got to believe it.
It never changes. So there are absolutes. And so then I get to, I want to understand the theory. I want to understand why this works. And so I went from the emotion to from emotion, like da da da da, let's just do it to, I want to understand how this works. And so I, I, I sit, I think it through and I think it through, tear it apart. I the puzzle back together. I go, well, that's the picture.
Okay, now I understand how this works. If I don't understand it, I feel kind of helpless because I just, I'm wondering. I better know where I'm going. I gotta know why I'm going. I gotta know why this works. Not just the fact that it does, but why does it work? So it's always a continually moving forward, trying to prove and support what I know. And, um, all I can say is all I know is what I know that I know. And that's all I know that I know.
But tomorrow I'll know more. You get that? That's my question. that's another common denominator with people that we talk to that are good with horses is they're always learning. They're lifetime learners. And we hear this from, and not all horse people are like that, but the people that are very open and they always want to get it better or maybe just find another way. They're the ones that just keep on growing. So.
Yeah, they haven't quite got the picture yet. They're buying a lot of electrical equipment to put on the horse and nothing is better than the skilled hands. And how do I know this? Well, I forget this one machine. I don't want to describe it as a machine, but I don't know how I can say it without doing that. I don't want to do that. But the fact is what I
My students will call me from time to time, Gary, what do you think of this machine? I said, well, I don't know anything about it. I guess it's got some value to it. don't, I don't know though. Well, this thing has a big loop. forget what it's called. You lay it over the horse. I had two horses to work on and, and the horse I'm working on, I looked over at the other horse. I didn't know that this was a horse I was going to be working on next. And they had this machine and the horse is yawning and very tired. said, well, I guess those things really do work. Okay.
Right now I know how my students. So I went to the owner. said, okay, where's your next horse? said this one here. Okay. So we took the machine off. It was a $20,000 machine. took the machine off and I went to check some areas in the horse. Lynch has some reactions. go, huh. So I went ahead and I worked on the horse, did a complete treatment, put it in the round pit and moved it out. Came out, checked everything. It was clear.
I go, what's going on here? Because it fooled me. I thought that horse was really benefiting from it. Then I started to realize, well, it was relaxing the horse, but it wasn't correcting the problems. I go, all right, so a lot of these machines have a purpose for relaxing and making the horse feel more at peace, but it didn't correct the problem. A lot of people are getting into these machines and spending a lot of money and they're...
They're trying to do the right thing, but they're not getting the problem solved. And so they expect to see the horse perform better. And I think they do to some degree. But if you're going out with a problem and you're working on a false concept, your horse is okay. And your horse gets injured because something wasn't right and you forced the issue. So nothing is better than a pair of skilled hands. That's all there is to intuition, skilled hands. I'll just back you on the...
In the military days when the cavalry were to issue a horse, they also issued you a massage man. They you had to take care of your tool. So they were massaging the military, massaging their horses back in Rome. Wow. That is interesting. did not. It goes back a long way. And the Greeks are saying, they said, if you're not using massage, you're a common man. The great athletes of the Greeks used massage because they knew the difference.
I've worked with a U.S. Olympic high jump team and the difference was from qualifying or not qualifying, it was me working on them. And then they all qualified. three of them had not. Dwight Stones was the only one that had. Doug Norquist had not. And the other two, I their names, had not. But I worked on them, they all qualified. And so it does make a difference. And the machines, okay, you can use the machine, but I'm telling you, skilled hands.
Being able to relate to this horse, the horse will tell you a lot of things if you pay attention. That makes sense. I mean, we're a living being, they're a living being. Your hearts can sync up. I think the magnetic field of the horse's heart was like five times that ours is. And I know ours is like arms length. So if you put your arms out, that's like the magnetic field of your heart. So you think about that being with the horse, syncing up, and now you're helping the horse. So the horse knows that the human is helping them.
So, you're in a conversation. You're in a conversation. They associate you with something amazing, a machine. Well, that's a place for them to stand and relax. Maybe that's the only place that horse gets relaxation with people, is at the machine. The rest of the time they're being led by their face. They're having a saddle strapped on them. They're being ridden. They're being spurred. So the one time they get to stand is in the machine. But if we're doing it, if it's our hands, our energy,
That's so much more meaningful to the horse on all levels and I believe on a physiological level as well. But what better thing to do if you're gonna ride your horse, massage your horse, and your horse goes, you're not so bad. I like you, you helped me. And you understand your horse more too then. Yeah. You get to really know them. I have a tip for your viewers on this. A lot of horsemen that go to a show,
You're have a lot of horses that are going to have to scratch because something happens to them in the trailer ride. They get there, they come down sick or something. When I was working with Sandy Collier's horses and Sandy herself, I came in one night evening and her two best horses were acting weird. I'm looking in and the buckskin has head in the corner and ears kind of drooping. And I go, what's wrong with you? He just kind of looks at me. I worked on him and about five minutes he snaps on me.
I worked on the stallion, same thing. I said, what's wrong with you? I said, I've never seen these horses act this way. I worked on him within two minutes, he perked up. Next morning at seven, nine o'clock in the morning, I get a phone call from Sandy. says, I love Gary. I love you. love you. love you. Thanks you, Gary. I love you. said, it's great to be loved by Sandy Collier. I don't know what I did to get loved. So I came in that, later on that morning at 11 o'clock and the girl said, Sandy really loves you. I said.
No, this is great. And I said, so what was going on? She said, well, she came in, she thought she'd have to scratch those two horses that you worked on. She says, what's going on with my horses? They're happy. He well, Gary came in last night, I worked on. And so that's she was all excited about. Now, if you scratch somebody's horse, like they say, hope deferred, at least a broken heart. If you've got a chance to make it into the finals and you've got to scratch, you don't make it in.
So it's a big heartbreak for the trainer and the hopeful owner. Well, I did a show recently in Tulare and I was talking to Mike Bradovich. He brought up those two horses. I said, oh, you remember those two horses? Yeah, they're mine. I said, I didn't know that. He said, yeah. He said, I won $40,000 on the buckskin. I go, where's my care? Where's my share? Give me my...
And I said, do you mind if I put this in a letter? He said, yeah, I'll tell the story. So I didn't know the rest of it. So the rest of the story is he made $40,000 off of a horse that did not have to be scratched. So should have given you a tip. If you're hurt, was running 104 and 105 fevers. That's what was going on. Okay. And, and they say, well, don't work on horses with a fever. said, oh, nonsense. You want to relax the body, give the body a chance. Same thing with the flu.
I have clients calling me, I've got a castle gear, I'm coming down. No, you can't give me the flu, you get in here, I'm going to charge you, you get in here. They come in, I work out, they get off the table and go, man, I don't age, I feel great. I said, that's right. And you cannot give me the flu because there's a reason why we digress into the state where we're aching and miserable. And we learned that when you came to my program, because there's a psychological thing going on which people are leaving the summer long days with picnics and barbecues and
Nowadays, gets shorter and shorter and shorter and darker and more. And you're shutting down. You get home, it's dark, you get off work and you can't do it. You haven't had any fun. You just want have little fun. I got to go home. I can't see anything. Then you got the holidays coming up. Then you get the worries and the stress. How am going to pay for Christmas? How am I going to do this? How am I going to do that? You're putting yourself into a state of frustration through all this analyzing. Headache, migraines, endless inner anxiety. You can't shut your mind down.
What I was talking about in the beginning, well, no, it's get in here. You will not end up with the flu. I'm done with you. You're going to want to go out dancing. You're going to feel that great. And it works every time. So there's always a reason. So forget the flu shots. I know that that's another story. So I'm not even going to go there because they don't work, but they work. They are working against you. And so, so there's all kinds in the academy. teach.
people how to work on people. can't certify them in that, but if you can do the horse, now I'm going to show you how to adapt it to the human. They can go home and they can help the loved ones or their farrier or their trainers get rid of headaches. My youngest student was 10, Natalie. She's on my website, howtomasageforhorse.com. She's got a little business she charged 10 years old when she left school. She's charged $125 a horse. mother is her chauffeur.
Her mom drives her around and her dad, Joe, had hurt his back during the trailer. They went to a chiropractor and was laid up next morning in bed. He was in worse shape. She said, dad, let me work on you. Wow. Okay. That's cute. Okay. Go ahead. He says, by golly, where I got up, I was pain free. My daughter fixed me. She's like 10 years old and she learned it at Gary Weig. Equal massage.
that's cool. Cool. Now you have to tell us what your presentations are in the fair. Well, first of all, so we've got the muscle testing presentation. Can you tell us a little bit about what people could expect with that? Okay. So muscle testing is very interesting. Kinesiology. Okay. Energy has direction. Thoughts can weaken us or strengthen us. I'm a touch for health instructor. went through the academy.
back in the eighties in Pasadena. And I used to test for a few allergies and emotional issues. talk about how the horse, how you can, energy has a direction, like perception vessel starts from the, the, the pubic bone up to the chin and governing starts here and goes over the head and then down the back. So you got energy running in opposite directions. Okay.
Opposites working together as a unit. I said, there's one thing we do in, uh, when we put the bridles on our horses, we take the oar lock, we pull it out, right? To get out from underneath the bridle. Well, you just reverse the energy. Your energy just took the energy in opposite direction. So I'm going to show you what happens when you do that. So I would use it. would have somebody hold, put their hand on the horse and I'd muscle test them and they'd go weak. I would take them and run the horse back the other way.
They're touched and they're just strong. Well, one of my students said, well, I see it. I do the muscle testing on the other students. She said, but I just can't quite guess. said, okay, let's do something with you. I I went three names, two people you have to really like, one person you. If you have anybody you can hate, it has to be in that, I got somebody. So just give me the name. Don't tell me which one is which.
So the first person I tested, she tested strong. I had one of the other students hold her hand. I was testing the other student. And so I got the second name. said the name, I pressed down and the surrogate yanked her arm away. said, ⁓ and then this jolt went into her shoulder. She said, ⁓ man. I said, I said, who's that? Who's that person? She said, that's my son-in-law. And I absolutely hate him.
So, uh, she says, I have to believe it. don't understand it, but I have to believe I got back out of the sun here. I can't, can't see anything here. There you are. So I, we talked about releasing, just discovering things that you've been hiding for years, which is going to make you a better interaction with you and your horse.
So we talk about energy direction. We talk about emotion. We talk about nutrition. I cover 134 problems that horses come down with, what causes it, how to address it, and how to prevent it. I talk about, I show how alfalfa hay is one of the biggest culprits as far as creating problems in horses. I had heard this story from a trainer that said, I like alfalfa, I don't like alfalfa. Everybody's the expert. Well, who is the expert?
So when I had my first ranch, I had alfalfa and I had forage and okay. I said, I'm going to take the alfalfa out for 30 days. I'm going to see if there's a difference. Well, one of my boarders had two horses and a mule and he worked for CDF. And once a year they'd leave for three weeks and go into the mountains and check, ride their horses and check the cabins to make sure everything was empty. Well, he came back. He was not happy when I took the alfalfa out. He was not happy.
And he came back and said, hey, Bob, how was your trip? said, you may be onto something on this Alpha Alpha. I said, what do mean? He said, well, I didn't have it this year because you, you know, I couldn't take it with me. You weren't giving it. He said, every year when we go riding, we all use Alpha Alpha and we come back to the base camp. After a long day's work, our horses are spent. They're just frothy. They just really worked up, were exhausted. This year, my horses were not.
My friends were using alfalfa, those were worn out, but mine were not. I said, okay, that's all I needed to know. And so now I know for sure. So what I advise my clients, when you go to these shows, two things you want to do. You want to, before you show, you want to stop feeding your horse anything two hours before you, two, maybe even three hours. You want it on an empty stomach as much as possible. You don't want that horse's stomach trying to digest while you're out performing. So cut the food. Second.
Cut the alfalfa or something different that isn't going to have a negative effect on your horse's performance. And so that's why I tell all my clients cut the alfalfa or something else. If you're going to make it into the finals, you want a horse that's not going to be worn out and tuckered out like Bob's friend's horses were. So these are things I learned on my own. I've discovered. when you're on this, I just happened to get this stuff from Frank Lampley, 134
problem the horse has come down with, and often time he'll say, cut the alfalfa. I go, that's very interesting. Even he was stating that in his material. And a lot of people are starting to listen to that now. So there's some things that just simply learned by scrubbing. That's interesting. And then your second presentation is...
a cross fiber technique and hip release technique. Tell us a little bit about that. well, the first, as I was telling you, the first technique I learned was cross fiber. worked with a chiropractor. Cross fiber, get muscles have adhesions, you go across that fiber, if you don't slide over, you actually hook that fiber and you move it. And the analogy I use is a guitar, acoustic guitar player. If you watch them after about an
eight or nine or ten songs, they'll readjust their strings because they've gone, they've stretched, they've gone flat. You tighten them back up. You turn your guitar. Well, you're playing the guitar strings of the animal and it causes those to release and to stretch. And now you got a better range of motion.
And so it's the easiest technique to learn because you don't have to know where anything is, just know the direction of the muscle and do cross fiber. You don't want to slide over cross fiber friction. You might hear someone on the internet said, and then you got cross fiber friction. Well, cross fiber friction is useless because you don't want friction. don't want to, you want to hook those fibers. So I show where to do that. The 11 o'clock, one o'clock. If you look at the anus, you're going to see 11 o'clock over here and
One o'clock over here. was doing, was on my way to Wisconsin years ago to do, I have 74 videos to shoot back there on a product I was endorsing. And I was in my rental car, muggy, hot, I can't figure out the air conditioning on this thing. And I was not very happy sweating and smelling like I just worked all day. And my phone rings like a
I said, Hi, Whiting here. said, Hi, Mr. Whiting. My name is, I forget what it was. I just want to say thank you for fixing my horse. I don't recognize your name. Well, we've never met. So how did I fix your horse? He said, well, I had a car factor and I had with the other person who was, but he was in, out, they worked my horse and they couldn't fix my horses. I hit his hip problem. And I saw your video on YouTube. And so I said, well, what the heck? So I did what you said. The next morning I came out, my horse was fine.
And I said, well, I said, I really appreciate this call that made my day. So, okay. So that's it. That's a very powerful technique. So it's a, it works inside around. You get the semi membranosis, semi tendinosis. got muscles run over the back. You get around it inside and hook that you got feel the fiber in there. And where's a lot of the move back and forth on you until it gets comfortable. Then it relaxes. So.
That simple little technique is there along with the cross fiber technique. And, I, just, I'm going to revert back to something really quick. Like I was using Rebecca. Rebecca is the other part of the academy and, and, she had three names and she, and I threw one name out there. She didn't, I knew who she liked and who she didn't like. And I, ⁓ said the first name and she tested strong.
I said the second name, I knew she was going have a problem with it. And her arm just went down just like it just, she just did not expect that. Then I gave my name afterwards and she was strong on that. go, okay, good, good. So she did not expect it. It works. And these are, these are also things you're to learn when you come to the academy. There's so much to learn. So much that's going to make your life better when you come here. I even let you do the talking. You can talk to me. ⁓
No, that's all really interesting. I have a question for you. So Paula has migraines and she's, they're getting better and she's been doing, know, meditating has been very helpful. Is there something immediate, like, is there something that I can, that even I could do to help Paula with her, her migraines? Okay. Yes. What are you testing for? Right. there, right between the thumb and the index finger.
You can put pressure on that. It's going to probably get out. just going to hurt. So you can hold pressure there. Also, if you take the end of the arm, I can't quite see. I can't quite see. you back up a little bit. So are you saying this point here, like in here? Right, right, right. Yeah. If you press on it, it might be a little sensitive. Okay. That's the headache release point. Okay. Sure. If you combine a second point with it, if you were to
Okay. So I would take Paula, I put her fingers in my fingers together and my fingers are matched hers four fingers that I would go. I placed four fingers on her arm at the bend. see that? Like, no, we can't. If you back up a little bit. There we go. And we see you. Okay. Okay. Then I slide it over and where my little finger goes is going to be a point that I would hold on, on top of the arm.
So you can hold that point and the large intestine point together and it'll knock out any migraine headache really quickly. All right, so then you can work underneath the, like the, we call windy pond or the little indentation above it at the atlas. You can put pressure in there and go out to the side, work all around underneath the cranial area, anything in the neck, just take and hold it. If you take a horse and you clamp down on the hole,
and hold it. That was the nag from hell I was talking about at the beginning. I just simply put pressure there. She threw her face right into the dirt and her bottom lip is quivering and her eyes like, so you can work any area in the back here. You can go on the top of the head. You can find it like, that burns. Okay. Hold it until the burn starts to go away. Anything you can find from here up is going to be valuable in getting rid of the migraine. And then of course you probably again,
What's the emotional attachment and endless inner chatter. can't shut your mind down. You're very, you're a very busy woman. This is not a small undertaking that you two have here. And I didn't know Jack existed until today. So I always thought it's a one gal show here. I'm glad you got Jack in the picture here, but you've got a lot of things going on in your head. It's your thinking and thinking and thinking and thinking.
And what you have is you take in a dream and you've done something with it. You created something very valuable for all of us out here. I watch these videos. I enjoy watching and learning. said, okay, that was helpful. And it gives us a launching platform that we can present to people and let them know what we have to offer. And then they can ask something more that they can look into.
I think that I've got a great deal to offer. And, you know, I'm heading into my 82nd birthday pretty soon. And I know what it's like. I know what it takes to be healthy and vibrant at 81. And there's a lot of people, there's a lot of people that can benefit from that. It will make a huge difference in their life. And these are all those things, not just the horses, but you as well. And so,
The I have to offer really will be beneficial to getting rid of headaches, getting rid of lower back problems, getting rid of all kinds of problems. But yeah, you can just work anywhere in the neck, on the head, have her lay down on a table and just like around the eyebrows and that, any place that burns, just hold the pressure. And it takes three to five seconds when you hold the pressure.
It's three to five seconds for a punch to start to release. And once it releases, then you can move on. It'll continue to release as you're going on your journey. Because you programmed, you're told what you want it to do. You're sedating it. So, well, she's going to appreciate you even more as she does. Um, because you were able to lull on her a little bit. Right. Thank you for that. Yeah. We'll try it out tonight. You can take her.
This technique works good where you just take, on the back, you take your finger, you go up underneath and you pull. On the back of the head, you pull. And since she's your wife, you can at least give her a little kiss. That's the thing. And her head could go away. It's good if you have a great mirror. That's awesome. So you're pulling to the side, correct? Straight back. Straight back. If you're on your back, I wish I could see what I'm doing.
because I got the sun right in my eyes. I can see your chest. I move this thing around? We can see your hands too. Okay. So anyway, you got, you got your, your, this area right in here. Yes. Okay. You're putting pressure, you're just holding that and just, you're doing traction. Anything that would work in there is going to release it. Then just taking the neck and just picking up the neck, bending the head back. This is going to be beneficial.
thumbs in through here are important. Anything you can do in the neck is going to be super. Okay. Great. Thanks, Gary, for that. thank you. We appreciate that. So I think I dominated all those conversations. Was there anything else? that's asked. That was the point. That was great. an interview and you have great things to say and we want people to hear what you have to say. I wish I could get out to your place at some point or do you go to Tennessee?
I'd love to go. I've never done anything in Tennessee, but I'd love to go back to Tennessee and do a program back there. So if somebody wants to put a school together back there, we travel out to do programs as well. It's coming in here. It's got a in-home certification program. You know, how to sign up to horse.com. can see all the different plans available. So for those who are interested,
My phone going crazy. It's still half of the Academy saying, are you still talking? You're in trouble. We got you in trouble. Tell them it's ours. Jack and Paul's fault. So anyway, I guess I can say thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to share the things I love to talk about. things that I know are helpful to people. love teaching and that's, I love when my students are successful. And it's, that's why I say don't.
Go to the horse because you need the horse. Go to the horse and fix the horse so that you can be rewarded with a very happy horse that's going to be following you around for the rest of his life. Excellent. That's really, that's really, that's a good message to end the interview with. And thank you so much for participating in the fair and we really appreciate what you're doing, your work. Thanks for helping out all the horses and all the people. I hope we get to, maybe we can meet up again sometime and do another interview with you.
Well, I maybe I have some new stuff to talk about. You've got, I know you've got more to talk about than what you, what we, what you had time for today. And for those of you watching, you can go to Gary's bio page and we've got some quick links at the bottom of his bio to find them on the web and email and Facebook. So feel free. And then what was the name of your website that you just mentioned again? How to massage a horse.
The website's in the process. We're doing a documentary on it right now. We're putting some stuff together. So things are going to be changing on the website in the next, probably within a month. We have a different website, but the information is there. Okay. Great. Well, thanks, Gary. Enjoy the rest of your evening here. Well, Jack, wonderful. Thank you so much.
