Paula Curtis (00:35)
I am really excited because today we are here with Deanna Montero and she's going to talk about her unique approach to helping people in their horsemanship journey. And the way she starts people on their journey is through understanding the horse through sculpture and learning how to sculpt the anatomy of the horse as you are, as you're learning about the horse and she's able to do this online, which I think is really cool.
And, and then in doing that, it makes you a much better rider trainer and partner to your horse because you're actually able to understand how the biomechanics of the horse works. And this is such an important thing that's oftentimes missed, I feel. So welcome, Deanna. So if you could share just a little bit about your
your story. So I got started teaching anatomy. I'm a professional sculptor and I started, I've had my horse since he was a baby. So my story kind of goes back to that time I got him when he was four months old. I was 16. was an Andalusian dream, you know, dream come true. That journey lasted a long time. He was
15 and I ended up sending him back to the breeder because I have my family now and I'm dedicating more to teaching and really being able to provide for him what he deserves and what he needs is at the moment I'm not able so that that he's at in a beautiful place right now. But I my journey started with him and I learned about anatomy to help him after I had put him in training. Came back to me and he had
some major issues, didn't want to be ridden, he didn't want to be groomed. So I started looking into how I might be able to help him. And I started, I had been sculpting for a long time, sculpting horses. And I started to think, well, I'd like to learn more anatomy, I'd like to know more about it and understand more in depth the conversations that I have with my veterinarian.
how I might be able to communicate better what I'm seeing and feeling and maybe understand my horse better. So I started sculpting the skeletal form, the musculoskeletal structures and everything, and I actually was able to find a path that led directly to its healing through my understanding of the anatomy, building it in the clay, which is, you know, a three-dimensional way of understanding, so it's...
pretty real, apart from working with the actual skeletal pieces that we dissecting or whatever, perhaps it's not something that everybody would like to do. So it's a nice option. โ So you can build every structure in every form and really understand it at a very fine detail level. So as I started doing that, I...
I was searching for different methods, different training methods, different ways to build his muscles and try and help him heal in certain parts of his body because I could tell, you know, things hurt and I wanted to ride, but he wasn't enjoying it. So I wanted us both to have that enjoyment, not just force him to do what I wanted, you know, or force him to give me what I wanted. I wanted him to enjoy himself as well. So.
When I started to really see results about two and a half years of really studying, applying, and working with him, I was able to start riding him again. He was really, you know, communicating and happy, excited to be with me. It was just a completely 360 turn around. And I started to, before that I was kind of observing other riders and
their relationships with their horses and the things that they talked about they struggled with that were just so similar to my struggles and the things that I saw with my horse and things I wanted to, you know, improve or heal or whatever. So then I started to think, I think this information is just too good to keep to myself. And I wanted to try and figure out a way that I could bring it to as many questions as possible. And
online seemed to be one of the ways that I could do that internationally. So I started filming the anatomy in clay so that I could offer it on through courses online and people could start learning the skeletal structure, the muscular structure, and then talk about biomechanics, even though a sculpture course doesn't move, but we can understand the biomechanics.
from the way that things fit together and the consequences of, you know, perhaps the development under certain patterns that we might have in training or over years. So there's lots of different ways that the student can learn even though they're not directly interacting with the horse through the clip. And then that's transferred to, okay, well, I can make connections now.
I understand the back is built in a certain way and the horse needs to be able to lift his back so that he can support the rider. And then just having that mental picture and that understanding of how the muscles are developed can ask the horse to do things that are healthy for his body rather than the opposite that causes long-term damage. So that's pretty much the story in terms of.
what brought me to what I'm doing now. that's fantastic. And I think it's a huge piece of the puzzle. mean, understanding the body and how the horse's body and how it works, it's similar to ours, but it's also very different. And in order for people to really see when they're riding the things that they'd actually like to be seeing and to know the why and the how behind it.
They've got to get some understanding of how all of these pieces fit together. And what a wonderful way to do it because it's so hands on. It's aesthetic. You're able to actually work with all of the little pieces. And I would imagine you do it, do you do it in like layers or how do you, how do you, okay. Tell us a bit about the process because I think that'd be really interesting.
Sorry, them to sculpt the skeleton first, right? โ And so this is actually a tutorial I'm putting together right now. It's going to be available pretty soon. And I teach them just with nothing. We start with a ball of tin foil, and then we sculpt the bones over it. And I talk about different bones and how
fit together and you know things like you know the jaw for instance how it's sensitive when the horse and if it gets damaged what happens to the body how it might affect the back and all of those those kinds of things so I go into it not in super into a whole lot of detail because it's just a skull but I do talk about that well until thing and then I also do you know the other layers so in this particular one where I talk about the
I use a different colored clay for the different layers. It's a lot of fun. I love it. And I think it's a great way โ to retain the information because like you said, it's tactile, it's kinesthetic. And so because you're building it, you have not only the opportunity to shape it and feel it, but you're kind of taking your time. You're building that.
it and it takes time to do it. So you're you're thinking about that one piece for a while. So it kind of ingrains pretty pretty quickly. The other part that a lot of people don't realize is that there's a lot of feel that's involved in sculpting too, which transfers directly to writing, right? It's not only about anatomy, it's about learning how you're using your hands and how you're
using your body as well while you're sculpting so that you can achieve what you want in the clay. if you, you know, once you internalize that idea and note the, the, those techniques, you can transfer that to, you know, not only your hands, how you're using your hands with the reins, but also how you're using the rest of your body in the saddle. So it's lot more, abstract, you know, technique that you learn from sculpting, but it's a,
is definitely applicable. that's so neat because I never I wouldn't have thought that you would be bringing both the mental mindfulness, kind of be present states, which is required in this as well as the feel. I mean, these are all such important things that we need to work on and away from the horse. So what a perfect way to do it. Yeah, what a perfect way to do it.
through sculpture and through understanding the anatomy of the horse. And I'm sure people are astonished at how like something small up here at the head clearly affects all the way back to that last vertebra on the tail and how interconnected that all is. And you mentioned the heel, you know, using feel as well. So this is a chance for them to sit there.
I'm sure that people can close their eyes sometimes and feel clay. But I mean, it's different than just seeing a video or a picture or having somebody say, look at the horse is stretching through its back. Now you're actually like in there. Yeah. And like you said, they take time to like process. that's because we're not very patient. So by having that clay there, it's like we feel like, you know, we're doing something right.
So I love it. And right now are more, are you finding more and more people are doing this since they're at home? How's that going for you? Yes, yes. There's a lot of people that are very interested in it. They'd be, a great opportunity because we have, I don't know what the situation is. I'm sure it's different everywhere. but we have, with COVID-19 going on right now, a lot of owners that actually can't see their horses.
So the barns are closed, the trainers and the grooms are taking care of the horses. So it's a great opportunity for people to stay connected and refine their techniques without actually being in the saddle or being with their horses. So yeah, it's been a good thing, I think, for people. Yeah, for sure. For sure. it's so interesting.
Like let's delve into you showed the skull and the bones in the skull. So can you tell us a little bit because I've heard a lot about how like when you have a noseband on a horse, let's say, and you put the noseband on real tight. And now you're asking the horse to flex and that jaw doesn't have the ability to drop down in the way it needs to to facilitate that you know that flexion can you talk to us just like
about things like that, I'd be real interested, and I'm sure the people listening would be real interested in how this all kind of fits together. Yes, so anatomically what happens when the horse is behind the vertical or he's put into a position where he's not able to move his head upward, it stretches C1 and C2, right behind, so right at the connection of the head to the neck. And you can actually physically see a bulge right there when that stretches out.
And a lot of people will refer to it as like, what is it, broken at the third vertebra. Yep, that's what you hear. Is what I heard. So yeah, that's probably one of the most visible things that you can see in terms of, you know, when the head is down like that. And you can actually see it immediately. And if the horse stays in that position, it will become permanently, you know, a permanent bolt. It can heal though, depending on how
โ you know how severe it is through the stretching and asking the horse to lengthen his spine. But what happens is it doesn't of course stay in the pole. It causes tension in the mouth and then that causes tension throughout the whole spine and in all the junction of the body. So it, you like you mentioned earlier, the connection from the mouth to the last word of rhythm tail.
It's amazing because it can show up in the lumbar vertebra, which start to bunch together and they start to push up. So that's where we will start to see the kissing spines in different parts of the back or also affect the position of the pelvis too. But of course, it's all multifactors going on here, depending on.
how the horse is kept, how often he's moved, what kinds of exercises he does, does he jump, he do dressage, whatever, and how the rider, of course, does exercises. So everything plays into all of these things. yeah, the just going behind the vertical creates a trickle effect throughout the whole body. And that was our major issue for my horse when โ he came back.
Some horses are, it's not, I don't think it's a breed thing. think in lot of cases it's a temperament thing. Some horses are more prone to want to be behind the vertical and kind of want, with quotes, trying to find a comfortable position, whether that's away from the hands or away from the tool that's being used.
And when my horse came back, he would only stay behind the vertical, with his chin, not pinned to his chest, but he was holding himself back because he didn't want to feel that tension in his mouth. But of course, then it creates tension elsewhere. So getting him to just kind of poke his nose out took a year of all sorts of different techniques and different things that I helped him with.
But the biggest was walking relaxed with his head, allowing him to put his head where he wanted it, which was down. And because that's the early stages when they're weak, they want to put their head down in the natural grazing position and just poke that nose out. But it takes a long time because they get nervous. They think they're going to hit something that hurts.
think about horses and the chewing action of their jaw. You know how it comes down and it kind of grinds and there's that slight lateral rotation as they chew. Think about a horse chewing and then think about a flash noseband or some people call them figure eight or drop nose bands, right? So you put that on. So they can't chew. they don't, can't fully relax because licking, we always talk about licking and chewing. It's not just relaxation. That's the stomach juices. It's like digestion.
It's that relaxed state. so people will clamp that mouth shut and then their horse is perpetually stiff in the pole. Defensive. Defensive, right. And it's like you take that flash off and that noseband off and the horse automatically, they start to kind of loosen up and they, you get that chewing motion going again. any thoughts on, on like the flash nosebands, the chewing, that type of thing?
Yeah, for sure. And I agree, I'm not against using nose bands, but I am against using certain ones. And also, it's important not to put them on too tight because like you said, prevents them from chewing and their dog does move back from side to side because it's natural for them to have that grinding action with their mouth.
is the only way that they can move. And so for restricting that, end up biting their tongue too. So if we put it on too tight, they'll actually pinch their tongue. And by restricting the tongue, actually, it causes direct pain or discomfort into the horse's pole, which we've already talked about what happens. If the horse has discomfort in his pole, then no.
were back to causing problems throughout the whole horse, the whole body of the horse. But yes, I ended up with my horse, same classic issue, nose band was too tight, didn't want to put a bit in his mouth. When I got him back, would bob his head up and down when he saw it and kind of hold his head up. He was tall, he was a 16 hand horse and I'm only 4'11", so.
It was pretty easy for him to get away from me. So I was like, well, this doesn't work. So we need to think of something else. I completely chucked the nose band. And there was no issue. I've had people tell me, you have to put the nose band on, otherwise you're going to grab the bit and run away. Or whatever. There's a whole list of possibilities, right?
And I, okay, well, I'll take my chances. And so I checked the nose band and of course, at first he experimented, right, with, โ I have freedom now, what can I do with this freedom? And he, I mean, he only experimented for maybe a day, day two. And he found out, well, he can chew, he could relax. He could, you know, when he actually started to,
feel that relaxation when he would put his head out, his nose out. And then he was a funny horse. He has a sort of a โ sense of humor. Some horses flap their ears, right? Well, he would flap his lips when he was relaxed. And I just always thought it was funny because you get this relaxed look in his eyes and then his lips would start relaxing. And then you'd start blowing air.
But yeah, it started with removing the nose band, which because they're really sensitive in their nose, the nasal bone is really thin and there's a lot of nerves in there. So if we put it on really tight, then we're not only causing discomfort up in that area of the nasal bone, but also under the chin, which also has a lot of nerves too, which is just the face is all very sensitive place. You probably wouldn't want anybody to strap something.
you know, really tied onto your face. With a with a bit with a metal bit in your mouth. Yeah, something desirable for anybody. Yeah. What about moving back now? You talk about floppy ears. And I love it when a horse is soft and they're kind of seeking folks, they're sort of coming up and forward and they're kind of stretching a little bit. And you can pick them up and in your hand and you're walking and their ears are flopping. So so
you know, obviously they're relaxed, but some horses really flap their ears like a mule almost, right? Any thoughts on that, the ears and that sort of thing? I think it's just by a horse, it depends because some horses, I like to observe, you know, just sit and observe horses and regardless of what the rider is doing and just see how they respond and some horses, even though they're tense, they'll flap their ears. So it's not always an indication of relaxation.
For some of them it is. I always tell, well, it's not one sign. It's like, it's a combination of 10 or 20 signs that the horse is relaxed. So does your horse soften his eyes and flop his ears? Then probably that's an indication for that horse. But if another horse is like his head's behind the vertical and his back is dropped, but he's flopping his ears, it's probably not a...
Not a good indication. observations is a huge thing, not only for understanding my course, but also understanding how to sculpt. You take a couple of minutes to observe the living animal. It depends on what I'm teaching. Sometimes I do live sculpture as well. So I teach the students to observe the horse and then choose a composition. And we go through the sculpting process that way too.
So we're kind of opening their eyes to the communication of the horse. How does he express his eyes? What's he doing with his tail when his eyes look like that? you know, so connecting the front and the back through the observation is a big part of it as well. You're talking about the whole horse, you you're saying, you know, and I like that because that's a good point, that some horses might...
I have a horse that she'll pop her lips a little bit. She's quite a bit. She's younger. So anyway, you know, I always perceive that to be tension, but the rest of her feels really great. And her eyes are blinking and she saw, and I guess, you it's been like, oh, if just that one thing would, know, she could just get quiet enough, but maybe, you know, maybe that's something. she'll do it without a bit as well. But maybe, maybe you're right that look at the other, look at what the rest of the horse is saying.
And for that individual, perhaps that it doesn't mean tension for her. might mean maximum relaxation. So it's about observing the individual. A lot of times you get this idea of kind of the idea of a box, right? This is what correct looks like, whereas correct looks different with everybody.
Every horse is a little bit different. Even though we have a baseline, of course, right? It's not going to be like, what would be a good example? I don't know. We start with a baseline, but then, you know, when we start getting into the details, each one is a little bit, you know, different.
That's something that I think, you know, every horse is so nuanced and being able to to pull in the entire picture and take a look at it, rather than just focusing on one individual thing is important. But just the ability to teach people to observe and from the sounds of what you're talking
about it sounds like you've got such an amazing way to teach people to observe the whole horse. And then they're taking it, they're putting it into some work with their hands, you know, working on a field, working on being quiet, but then I'm sure you have to have them observe again. So there's this constant like back and forth where you're observing, you're working with your hands, you're creating something and then observing again. And that's riding. Yes.
You say, okay, now what is my horse saying that I just told it? How did that feel to him? And then you change and horses, riding horses is very much like sculpting. is. And even the muscle tone, cause you know, I'll tell students will experiment with muscle tone. I'll say, you know, sit like jello. So they're, they're too loose, you know? And then I'll say, sit like wood and they're too stiff and the horse will howl and slow down. And then I'll say, now sit like clay. And so we're finding ways to teach, you know, muscle tone.
Or to put, to describe that and working with clay, would be, that would make perfect sense. And even somebody grabbing clay and squeezing clay. Yeah. You know, what a good teaching aid that, that, is. So I think you're, don't know of anybody else that does this. No. I don't either. So you're one of them. Not, not directly related to riding. Right. Yeah. And, and I, that's, I, when I,
started searching for a healing process for my horse, I realized it was me. I needed to make the adjustments and my best tool was sculpting. Yeah. So I have a question for you and it's in regards to, I guess you'd call them horse riding simulators. So like at horse fairs, you'll have these things and
You know, I get it, it's data for feedback for the rider. So if I'm sitting heavy on one sit bone versus the other, or if I'm pushing on my left stirrup more, I get it, it's feedback for the rider. But to actually make a simulated horse, I don't know if they'll ever be able to do that because the way they move and certain muscles stretch and certain muscles contract and it's so dynamic.
that I don't think riding simulators, I think it'd be really hard to make one. So as an artist and a sculptor and somebody that rides horses, what are your thoughts on like the whole riding simulator thing? And is it possible to make one that would actually feel like a horse? Right now, I don't know. I have never tried to make one, so I know. I think it's pretty cool. The data, I like data. I think it's pretty cool, the information that you can collect from it, but I don't know how much it helps.
in terms of applying to your writing. If your takes maybe a rider that's completely unaware of their seat bones or the way that they're using their body, then yeah, I think it could be beneficial. But there's other ways also that, instance, when I talk about, I do clinics and I talk about rider position, for instance, and we do a self observation as well before starting to sculpt.
And we do some exercises in terms of the way that you're sitting or do you have good posture? Where are your seat bones? So if you're sitting on a hard surface, it's pretty easy to feel because it's uncomfortable. And if you put your hands under your bottom or you're sitting, you can feel your seat bones. So there's different ways of doing it. But I think it's a pretty cool idea. I think โ maybe the
as it develops, it might become more sophisticated. But simulating a horse, I think that's pretty complicated because they're very complex animals. And I'd be surprised if we could simulate something that was equal or at least close to equal because they're living creatures. Each one is a little bit different. They respond differently.
to each different person because every person is also different. Our energy, it really affects them too. So, which is something that a machine won't respond to. So yeah, think there could be some great benefits to it, but I think there's also things that benefits to being with the horse that you can never get with the machine. Yeah.
Yeah, I like I'm kind of going back just a little bit, but I like how you said, you realize that in order to help your horse, it came down to you. And I think that's a really important thing for people to understand is, we have to be an educated advocate for horses. And to become that we need education, right, we need to learn more about them and learn about
their body, their mind, because they're both so interconnected, to be able to communicate to the veterinarians like you were speaking to earlier, you've got to have a general idea of what's going on because they're not going to exhibit the exact things in front of the vet that you're seeing on a day-to-day basis and that sort of thing. So what would be some key areas people should kind of key into? Something that you see come up fairly regularly.
when assessing horses or when observing horses that you would encourage people to kind of look at and become real familiar with when working with their own horses so that they can see maybe potential problems coming up. I would start by observing one's energy personally. How are you approaching your horse? Are you finding some, you know, do you come away
kind of feeling the same every time and if that's a dissatisfaction where that might be coming from. I talk about that a lot because usually when we're having a problem it's because we're approaching the issue not in a way that's gonna be helpful to the horse, right? So it's observing the horse and some of the issues, well, I would say some of the biggest issues that come up, right, are
are just general tension with the horse. And then they're creatures of habit. So we teach them to be tense. They're just gonna naturally be that way when we pull them out of their stall. And some days are gonna be worse than others. And it's a cumulative too, right? So if we don't release that tension, it eventually just becomes a ball of tension that's eventually gonna. So starting from...
that idea of where can I, how can I make myself relax so that I can transfer that to my horse? And then I think once you start kind of pointing the finger back at yourself rather than at your horse, which is a hard thing to do because it takes a lot of, it's a lot of work to really kind of away the layers and see yourself as, it's hard.
Not that it's not a lack of honesty or whatever, but it's hard to kind of pinpoint what you need to work on, because other people are able to see that easier in yourself. kind of having that mental picture or that mental, that idea of how I'm going to approach my horse so that I can help him relax is helpful, because then you start to make these connections of how you can
โ kind of prepare yourself or start, even start your day, with, you know, more relaxation and, and apply that to, know, by the time that you get to your horse, you're not, you know, tense or you're not like, you don't have the weight of the day on you. Yeah, totally. And so I think.
I mean, it's kind of an abstract idea, but it's just so important to start from that idea of what am I transferring to my horse? And what changes can I do to be the most positive possible so that I'm not causing things that I don't want to cause in my riding or in my interaction? I think that's fantastic. I mean, I think it does really boil down to
where we're at emotionally, physically too, right? Because that emotional energy kind of creates what we are physically. And then understanding how much that affects the horse and how interesting coming from somebody that's teaching, you know, the biomechanics, how all the pieces fit together, understanding the musculature, the skeletal anatomy of the horse. And here she is.
What do we need to work on the most? it's our own energy. Because it's not about the mechanics, really. It's about understanding the mechanics so that we can understand ourselves. That โ just sounds so weird. But it's true because, know, anybody on any, I think anybody that works in anything ends up comes to the conclusion that, I need to work on myself. It's not out.
it's actually in here. And a lot of people think, you're teaching anatomy, but I want to teach feel, or I want to teach, you know, but like I said, you know, kind of start at a baseline. And if we can start at a baseline, we teach what we can see, what we can, you know, build in this case, then we can move to the more abstract ideas of feel and energy.
because we start, I think we start directly from feel. It's like, it's more difficult because I remember when I was younger being taught to ride and it's like, no, it's a feel, understand this. And I was a little kid. So I'm like, okay, it feels fine. know, I just want to canter around and it feels fine to me. But it's...
So explaining it through like, well, these are the structures and the reason you want to work on your field is because then it affects the horse's back like this. You know, making it kind of making these connections. Then of course, I mean, to me, it's kind of becomes difficult to explain it through words. But when you're starting to build it and you're transferring that and working with your horse, you start to go, oh,
So if his back does that, that's what it feels like. Right? Right. And it's not like I can say, yeah, it feels like X, Y, and Z because it might feel a little bit, it'll feel a little bit different if I'm working with my horses, you know, my 16-hand horse versus somebody's 14-hand pony. And, you know, so everything's going to, you know, it's all a little bit variable. Yeah.
know that that's really cool. and the the slowing down and feel is taught, you know, through your hands on kinesthetic approach, you're, you're, creating a scenario. It's hard when people are just with their horses. It's them and their horse, but then you add an instructor. So now they've got this pressure of being on their horse trying to interpret what's going on here, trying to listen to the instructor.
trying to like perform, some people feel like that pressure to perform in front of their instructor, they want to show their instructor they're doing good and doing right. And so there's so much feedback that to develop feel in that space can be a little bit difficult for many. in the environment that you're creating, you're really allowing them to slow down. It's bringing that energy to the place that they need to have their energy when they're riding.
And then they're able to develop the feel. And then through that, you're also, I'm sure, talking about the understanding and how this all works together. And it's just, it's really intriguing. It's a really intriguing way of going about doing this. And I can see that it would be very effective for people to take one of your courses and go through this and really start to understand how all of these pieces fit together. Definitely. I wonder if you took like high end.
riders or whatever, equestrians. And if you said, sculpt a horse that you'd like to see. So like, let's pick Andrasaj. So you ask the grand pre-rider, you say, sculpt the horse that you'd like to be on. And then you had them ride. And does that horse match their vision? Does that horse match the horse they sculpted? Right, right. Now, obviously, they're not going to able to sculpt that, you know, possibly be able to sculpt that well. But I'm trying to say like,
Does the product, does the horse they're riding, does it match their vision? Or does it look like something completely different? Is the horse over flexed and gaping or whatever? You wouldn't sculpt that, right? Yeah. Well, you do see that in art. I guess you do. You do see that, you know, over flexed horse with the gaping mouth, which is really too bad because it's not beautiful. mean, the thing about art is it's an expression of truth. So unfortunately that's one, that's the truth.
that we have in the equestrian world. And it's sad because we do, see it a lot and our artists, they don't know what they're sculpting or they're painting. They're just doing what they see. And unfortunately that kind of comes back to the equestrian world. How well are we educating our writers and our students? But yeah, it's a shame.
Well, you see the resistance in there. And of course, a lot of arts is like, you know, battles and stuff like that. So you see horses that are at war in a stressed state or, and you're right, I guess, you know, they are sculpting what they see or painting what they see. And you're right. The truth is a lot of horses are stressed and, you know, that that's done and, you know, and resistance can't be beautiful. You know, I'm kind of paraphrasing, you know, my version of the saying.
But it's almost like if people could in their mind envision the softness in a horse that's really almost like play or curiosity, if they could get that in their mind and now go ride. I just think that would help, that would change things a lot for horses. Yeah. It definitely would. I agree. And I like that you mentioned playfulness because that's something when I started incorporating that with my horse.
it really started to see that sparkle where he was just excited. was like, I could play, can experiment. And then you start to get that communication, that back and forth communication. It's not just me telling him what to do. He is saying, let's try this. Could this work? And we'll be like, let's try it this way. And then you start to have that.
silent communication, which is really neat. And then, and that goes back to learning the feel and learning to slow down. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I'm sure we've got a bunch of people listening that would love to learn more about you and your work and what you do. So how, how can they, how can they get more involved with you and learn more about, about you? Well, they can look at my website. I have two websites, dianamontaro.com.
is where you can take the online courses for the Sculpture Anatomy. I also have SculptureAnatomy.com if you want to learn more about the sculpting of the horse, just what it is, what it means. And yeah, I also have Facebook page, Sculpture You Find Anatomy on Facebook. And you also have my Instagram as well. Same name. Okay.
Okay, so Sculpture Equine Anatomy is what they want to If they're going to google something that would be you're going to pull up on that. That would be yeah for the the horse anatomy stuff that would be yeah. Do you work with like bits and bidding and like with a clay horse like a skull? Do you talk about bits at all with at your clinics? I haven't done a whole lot. I I mentioned that it's important to use a bit that's that is comfortable and I
you you choose to use a bit, I suggest the French link Snapple, just the loose ring, because I think it fits the mouth the best, and it creates the least amount of discomfort on the bars of the mouth. And you can get them with a flat link in the middle too, so it doesn't poke the mouth, doesn't poke the palate. Making sure that it fits, know, so I do talk about that.
the discomfort or the comfort of a bit can help the horse be more relaxed throughout his body
โ What is your YouTube channel? Just the name of it. The same sculpture. What else do you sculpt? What else do do for? Cause you said you're a professional sculptor. I sculpt in bronze. Those are a couple of bronze sculptures.
and but it's mostly horses. I'm actually right now working on a tutorial of the human figure. So this is something that's not up yet and I haven't mentioned it publicly, but I'm working on tutorials on rider anatomy and so that then we can sculpt the horse and the rider together and see how two figures that are just so different come together. So.
It's yeah, I, but I don't, I don't professionally sculpt humans. It's mostly horses. do you take like chalk or paint and do you mark like a real, like a physical horse for people to see like the anatomy? So what I like to do, it's actually for my younger students.
I did a collegiate clinic here at Stanford Equestrian last summer. I did three clinics, I think, for them. And what I did is I just got a bunch of paint. I had a big poster of the anatomy of the horse. It was a short, it was, think, two to three hour clinic, so we didn't have a lot of time. But we decided to paint the haunches, which is a vital part of the movement, getting correct movement.
of the horse and of course they're very focused in competition so we talked about you the health of the horse so that they're more competitive and and but I took them and I told them to paint it onto the horse so I didn't do it for them. So I said okay we're gonna we're gonna paint the the the skeleton of the horse on you know the haunches of the horse on directly onto the horse and they're like
I'm not artistic, I can't do that, I've never done that before. They're all teenagers, And so it's like, it's okay, it doesn't have to be perfect, I just want you to give it a try. Because when we give ourselves that freedom to try things, then we're less afraid and we can communicate better with our horses. So we get over that fear factor, which is a big...
contributor gingeries when we're riding, right? right. know, over that through expressing themselves in the art and painting the skeleton on the horse. So we talked about that and they had a lot of fun. They were like, hey, I can actually do it. mean, of course, you know, cover some things up and fix some things and talk about, if it was, if...
that bone was that shape, would the horse be able to move? And they were like, well, no, so let's go ahead and fix it. So it was really neat because they started to think about how the horse is structured and how he moves and then also, know, kind of naturally getting over fear of failing because they're trying something that they've never tried before.
And you would think that people that ride horses, we need to be somewhat creative and we need to have a vision of what we want from our horse and how we want our horse to go. And so by painting, it's like you're taking them to sort of the creative side of their mind. So that when they ride, maybe they're in that place versus like you said, the worry, that block. pretty much, all of our, you know, all of our presenters at the fair, talk about that, you know,
slowing down and relaxing and not having fear as a blocker. And I'm sure with the painting and with the sculpture, they're stepping away from it and then feeling empowered as well. they're like, oh look, I actually can do it. yeah, so cool. Yeah, a lot of times people are really afraid to try things that aren't related because I think that there's kind of a
this idea of you have to create a masterpiece because you if you're doing anything art related and you know it's no you actually just have to have fun. You need to enjoy the process, have fun with it and every time you do it you're going to get a little better. yeah awesome. Totally and I go back to the energy piece that you talked about earlier. Right. Our energy coming to our horses is so important so if we're coming to our horses nervous and stressed and thinking we have to create this masterpiece
It's not going to be fun for either of us. But if we just go out there and we just want to have fun and that's why kids and horses kids, you know, they're not doing everything perfect. Yeah. Well, no, that's such a good point though that, it's funny that, you know, we come, we come back to this and so hearing it from somebody like you, that's that creative artist type saying it.
It's cool. It's refreshing. Yeah. We appreciate it. Yeah. Kids and horses are great. Aren't they though? Yes, they are. And I grew up with miniature horses and we had, we had a breeding farm and we had a little stallion and a bunch of breed mares and the little stallion was funny. He was very difficult with my mom, but anytime any of us kids would do anything, he was perfect. He'd just stand in front me. Cause we were just
you know, doing stuff. We were just having fun with him and and and we were relaxed. We didn't have any expectations for him and I think maybe that's โ expectations are kind of what get in the way. I think you're right. I think you're right. His mom had minis as well. She bred and she showed minis and so in my teenager teenage years she had a few minis and we had some big horses but then I'd say my 20s she started breeding miniature horses.
So she's like a Hall of Famer and everything. Yeah, yeah. So do you ever hear about artists that they make like a painting or a sculpture, but to them they don't like the way it looks. And so they'll put it aside and then they'll come back to it and they'll say like, come back to it the next day or come back to it a few days later. Do you ever look at your own work and like question it or do you have that happen at all? Yes, a lot.
And actually I incorporate that in the process of sculpting, assessing the quality of the work as I'm progressing. And I talked about that in the tutorials and the online courses. And it actually, the longer I've been sculpting, the better I'm at assessing my work in the moment, rather than putting it away, covering it up and not looking at it for several days. I think it's actually...
you get to the point where you've refined your eye and you can pinpoint things faster. But I think it's just a matter of practice and fixing issues. every sculptor, every artist has to go through that process of fine tuning. It's not like you do something perfect the first time. Every time you do something, you have to fine tune it.
And it's the same as when you get on your horse, you have to warm him up and fine tune him and then get to quote unquote the fun stuff that, you know, people are excited to do with their horses. Yeah. And put them up and put them away and, and, know, yeah. And then cool them down. Yeah. The whole process. It's the same with the sculptures. As I am, um, I keep my sculptures on a lazy Susan so that I can turn them while I'm sculpting.
So because of course it's a three dimensional object, so you want to be able to put something on, look at it from every angle. And so I naturally put it on, turn it, put something on, turn it or smooth it and turn it. And so it's a constant adjusting. There's constant adjustments that are happening throughout the process. And then of course I'll come back the next day and look at it go, that elbow is a little bit higher than the other one or, you know, the head isn't exactly where I.
I wanted it or maybe my proportions are slightly off so I'm going to fix it. And then you do that all the way through from the beginning to the end and you get to the end and it's the way that you want it, right? Because you're making those adjustments all the way through. So, yeah. How do you keep your clay moist? It's oil-based. It doesn't dry. So it can actually reuse it. Cool. I actually sell kits for my skins.
And so they can reuse almost all of their materials except the armature that it's built on, which is aluminum. You can reuse it a little bit, maybe two or three times, but until it gets too funky and starts to break. But everything else, yeah, it's reusable. Well, good. Well, thank you so much for joining us here today.
Well, I'd just like to thank everybody for listening and then also for this great opportunity to talk to you guys. I think this is, it's wonderful to know that there's other equestrians that have the same kind of vision and they're on, you're on a quest to help horses be more calm and relaxed. And of course, through that, we help riders be safer and enjoy their, the time they spend with their horses too. So, you know, I want, just want to say thank you to you and everybody that's listening.
Thank you so much and thank you to everybody who joined in today.
