Paula Curtis (00:34)
Hey everybody, welcome. I am here today with Ketrin Silva, who has a wonderful story she'll be sharing with us about how she started in Germany riding dressage and has now ended up in the United States and New Mexico. And she's applying both the concepts that she learned from dressage, as well as riding other disciplines, be it Western pleasure, reining and applying quality horsemanship.
to that and she's us all together to help horses and students everywhere. So I appreciate you all for being here today and and welcome, Katrin. Uh no, I would just love to know how you came up with this wonderful idea for the online horse fair. That really just that was timely. Yeah it was. Um it actually it it kind of happened in a slightly roundabout way where I went to a do you know who Karen Rolfe is?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like her a lot. Okay. Yeah, so my my parents in February of 2018 sent me to a seminar that was done by her and it was how to transform your business and make it the business that you really want. And so, so through that, I became aware of the fact that you can do things online, which I had not really
delved into or been aware of, which is kind of silly because I've done a bunch of health research online, like I'd, you know, learn from people online, but just it didn't strike me as horses, you know, would be Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So what ended up happening is I, I thought, I need to, you know, I need to get my message out, I need to share more. And I started some online programs and stuff. But really, both Jack and I are kind of
We're like lifetime learners and we are always looking for more. And we've been so inspired by all the people that we've worked with and we're always, I mean, every avenue of our life, be it nutrition, sports, you know, you're an ultra marathoner, that correct? Yeah, I'm an ultra runner. Yeah. Yeah. So with all of that, we're always pulling in information from as many sources as we can. And
So then through that the online horse fair kind of was born because it really allows us to get the message out about Yeah, and there's all this technology now and then why not use it? I mean, I it was a wonderful idea and your story is kind of interesting in the respect that you know, you grew up in Germany you
learned to ride dressage in Germany and then you came to the United States and you ended up in the western United States which is such a different... Well I came to the United States because I wanted to learn western writing. mean I you know I grew up writing dressage and I thought it was the most boring thing in the world and I wasn't having any fun and I never thought I really learned to you know...
to learn the things I wanted to learn. And I thought, well, you know, I like, this isn't like, I don't want to work this hard and I don't want to be yelled at and all those things. I mean, if you've been around for sawing of teachers and, you know, this old time instructors, you know what I'm talking about. I mean, it's like, I don't know how many times as a child I was there like.
crying on my horse like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I've never learned this. And it's just, you know, I just thought this can't be the end all. And then I remember going to this, this European championship of Western riding in the early 80s, the first one they had there. And, know, I'm sure it wasn't that great, but I was just so amazed. was like, wow, oh my God, this horse is going to loose rain. Oh my God. You know, horses go in hackamores. And then it was just so cool. And I was just a teenager. was like, I wanna do that. And so I hung around there and started talking to people. And actually I moved to Italy first because they were a little bit ahead of
the western stuff in the 80s, like right after I graduated from high school, mean the first day I didn't even wait for the graduation, was like the day after my last exam I was on the train to Italy and I started working for this horse farm there and I was there for about a year and then I ⁓ met a judge who was from the US and know how Americans are, always say, you know if you're ever in the area just come and buy and I took that literally because I'm German and so I didn't know that you know don't mean it that way and I saved up money for a ticket and I was like, here here!
So yeah, I know, I mean, they didn't just come to the US because I wanted to travel. I mean, I really had a specific agenda. Right. Well, that's so interesting. That is interesting. mean, dressage just obviously means training, but it's really to get...
people doing other things with their horses, right? Well, yeah, we know that now, but I mean, you know, it's like, know, when a lot of people even now, they hear Dressage and see Dressage, they think it's all about those stupid white pants and those stupid blingy brow bands and then, yeah. No, I've got a couple of those too, but I mean.
I mean, it's, and everybody is so stuck up and everybody's like, oh, well, if you want to ride the massage, you have to have a massage horse and it'll cost you a gazillion dollars. And, you you can't dressage, do dressage on your quarter horse. And it's like, this, this sounds so wrong. This is just so not me. But, you know, after totally doing without dressage and working for like several, a succession of Western trainers for a number of years. And, um, yeah, I finally came back to it when I, you went out on my own and I was like, oh yeah, this is something that does help every horse. And, and, I remember how
to
do that and so I've started revisiting that whole notion and started getting into that again but yeah in a very different way. Right yeah it's interesting because what I would read in books especially like when you look at like the classical dressage books what I read in the books and then what I would see in practice were two Oh my god yes. And so it's like that bothered me really bad and even as a kid in 4-8. Oh me too. You know and the same thing I was
lady, I was crying. was like in 4-H, like 10 years old. And I was trying to do some looser rain things, but I still wanted the lesson. And it was like, this doesn't make sense. It doesn't, you know, this isn't what they're talking about in books. And then later on, as I met the right people and started seeing, you know, other dressage clinics and things like that, I started realizing, okay, so there is a section of dressage people that are based on softness and lightness and that type of thing.
But yeah, and that aren't discriminating against horse breeds and that aren't, you know, just like, like, you know, turning up their noses on anything that doesn't look like it's imported. And yeah, that's always really bothered me too, because I mean, I work with all horses and I feel like that's my job, right? I'm a trainer. it's like, if I see a horse in the right, I'm like, okay, I'll kind of make this work out better. And I do whatever is in my power to do that instead of saying, oh, well, you shouldn't even be here. I was like, oh, you need to get a different horse. I mean, that's, you know, that bothers me too.
Right. I know I had an experience. there is a, I was at a 4-H show and I'm riding my Morgan mare, you know, I'm really young. I love Morgan's, And, and the, the, the gal that was judging was a dressage lady, but she was judging the 4-H show. And she told me, I will never make it on my horse. You know, they come through the line and they tell you things. I'll never make it on my horse because my horse isn't nice enough. She doesn't.
track well enough and she gave me kind of a whole litany of things. for your crushed. I know as a youth it's like well this is what I have. don't you know.
This is my, and I love her. Isn't that what dressage is supposed to do? Like you make the horse use their body better and all those things. mean, I showed Morgans for years and there were some really lovely people in that world. And I had a Morgan mare that I took to like second, third level and she was amazing. She was like 14 hands and then this tiny pony, but you we did okay. But I mean, no, how can you say, this horse is good enough? I mean, you ride what you've got, right? Right, exactly. And that kind of goes back to your question about Paul on the fair.
She has the motto, better people, better horses, better world. Yeah, that's wonderful. And the idea is, is we all love horses. So why are we always looking at what clothes you wear, what breed you're on, what discipline you ride? Why don't we just start learning about horses together? And we all have, we all, in the end, we want harmony and we want to be able to ride our horses wherever we want.
people to do what we want to do so we all have the same goals. We want happy horses. Yeah, not this sort of militaristic style of training.
you know, it's like it's coming from the old military days of training. Oh, well, you know, in Germany, dressage does go back to the military and it really shows and, know, and it's gotten better, you know, but still there is a lot of that where it's like, well, you know, and especially the competitive world, you have to have the certain horse and otherwise it's like this exclusive club and you belong to it or you don't. And if you don't belong to it, people really look down on you like, oh, you're lesser than.
on please. I just would never you know I've got a really nice and illusion that I'm training now and then I love her dearly and then she's wonderful and I feel really lucky but I'd never want to give up my barn full of you know I mean I've also got this 19 year old saddle bread who's never gone to school in her life and you know and and and I'm just as excited to work with her and she's gotten a lot better and then her owner's learning how to you know.
communicate with her better and all those things. I mean, that makes me really happy. Why would I want this barn full of really fancy horses with very stuck up owners usually who are very difficult to deal with. Yeah, exactly. It makes perfect sense. So tell me a little bit about in Germany when you started seeing the Western disciplines coming over. What attracted you or what, how did that shape up to be?
Oh, it was just a revelation. It's like, you don't have to always pull on the horse. And when you take dressage instruction in the 1980s in Germany, you hear a lot of like, make the reins shorter and more more leg and more whip and more spur and more more everything. And then I looked at those horses that were, I think it was Jean-Claude Dizley. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He's from Switzerland.
He was instrumental in bringing Western writing and California maquero style writing to Europe. I think he's dead now, but yeah, he was just amazing. mean, he was writing those horses in the hack-a-more and then he had, I think he had a bridle horse too, but I was just like, wow, I mean, he didn't seem to be doing anything and he wasn't working so hard and the horse looked like it wasn't working that hard. And so, I mean, that just really impressed the heck out of me. Yeah, yeah, interesting. But it actually, yeah. What area of the Western United States are you from?
I, New Mexico. New Mexico. fell in love with New Mexico. was on a tourist visa. Yeah. The visa was good for three months. That was, gosh, that was 30 years ago. I never left again. yeah. So you, you, you stuck it. You're like, this is the place for me.
Yeah, I just felt like I had just come home. mean, I said, no, this is it for me. And I remember calling my parents. I was 19 years old. And my parents said, you're going to stay where and live where? said, yeah, that's it. And it was. Yeah. Yeah, that's a big change. That's a big change. it was a really rough awakening at that point because I worked for a couple of different trainers. But the one I stuck with the longest was this.
a horse world champion trainer with the big buckle and everything and in western riding and western pleasure and all those things and I was like wow this is my big chance and my god was she abusive so I learned a lot about how I didn't ever want to train a horse and yeah I stayed there way too long partly because I didn't have a green card and they threatened to call the immigration on me so I really didn't have much choice at that point.
But it was a real experience. I mean, it's like, my God, those horses don't go in the loose rain because they're happy because they go in the loose rain because they're going to be yanked and cranked on if they ever come out of that low frame. And the things that this person did to make the horses go that way, I mean, it's like, you don't want to know about it. You probably know some of it. I mean, it was horrible. Right. Yeah, it's interesting how all the disciplines get so exaggerated and distorted.
So whether... then it just becomes a style that people are trying to imitate like, ⁓ yeah, this person's winning. So my horse needs to look like that and then I will make my horse look like that without really knowing like, like, like, why is this happening? And what was this person originally trying to do? And, know, it's like people don't think about these things. Yeah. And it happens in all disciplines. I mean, in dressage and modern dressage, we see like, we see the leg movements and everything got so grotesque and exaggerated. Western pleasure horses.
going so slow. What cowboy is going to ride their horse like that across the desert? Yeah, you're going to get anywhere. And this whole thing about their haunch is stuck to the inside all the time. And then I've worked for one trainer who said, oh, you have to learn how to do a spur stop. And I said, what's that? It's like, you your spur in the horse. And the more you do, the slower the horse goes. And the horse stops. Like, why would I do that? makes no sense. Yeah. And it's just a dead end. It's a dead end. And you you a story about the big lick in saddle seat, you know.
And that kind of makes sense, where all of a sudden people saw this, this horse won, so pretty soon people saw that one. So now let's take it to the extreme, and over the course of time it gets more more. Right, right. Yeah, if the horse throws the knees higher, then the horse will win more, so we're gonna have a one that throws its knees even higher. And it was the same with the Western Pleasure, it's like, oh yeah, a low, the horse goes relaxed in a low frame, I mean, that's desirable and good, and yeah, we all want that. But then it's like, oh, well I can make my horse's head even lower, and then, yeah.
can make my horse's nose drag the ground and look at that. It's like, well, that wasn't really the point. Not really the point. And where's the art in that? No, there isn't. Right. No. And then you have all those shortcuts and methods. And oh my god, I mean, the things that I now know and I wish I had never learned about how to make a horse drop his head. I mean, it's outrageous. I mean, and I'm not.
proud to admit this, but yeah, that was when I was in my early 20s and I worked for this big-time trainer and who, I mean, we used to tie their heads up overnight to where their feet were almost off the ground so their neck muscles would get really tired and then they'd come out the next morning and go, and by God, I mean, I still can't believe I didn't say, no, I will not participate in this, but I was like, well, if that's how it's done, maybe I just need to get tougher about it. And I finally woke up one morning and said, never again, but yeah, it took a while. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's hard. went to,
Congress looking for a horse for some clients and I hadn't been exposed to that and I saw the horses they were putting them up on blocks tying their heads up and then taking the blocks out. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, that is not awful. It's shocking. was, I was, and the owner just stands there and smiles benignly like what owner? I mean, if that was my horse, I would just say, no, you will never touch my horse again. But now they're just like, well, if that's how it's done, I guess that's what we need to do.
Yeah, exactly. hope the owners of my training horses would tell me like, like, if I did something like that, they would just say, no, we're taking that horse home today. Right, right, right. Exactly. And you know, when you look at a horse in its natural state, or even just on its own in the herd playing and jumping, and the movements that it that it makes, and the way that it looks, if people would look at those movements and say, now, how do I get that look?
Right? so that that how do I get that out of my horse? Instead of going for some look that they see.
It's crazy to me. They're so beautiful naturally. Yeah, it's beautiful naturally. then also, mean, it's like if you look at like what Grissage originally did, like it had a really practical purpose. Horses aren't really built to carry us around on their backs. So if you train a horse in this gymnastic way that Grissage really is, it's like the left side and the right side start to even out and their top line develops and they're going to stay sound for many, many years. And they're not going to be so on their forehand and they're going to be much more comfortable ⁓ carrying a rider in the long run.
and so we're doing them a big favor but that kind of gets lost that that aspect of it. think it does too yeah exactly. So then what happened after that trainer how did you start to get exposed to more of the horsemanship the quality horsemanship that you now practice? Well it was
You know, honestly, that trainer, I have to go back and find her and then look her up and then give her a big hug and tell her thank you, thank you, thank you, because that's what got me started thinking this is not who I am, this is not how I wanna train, this is not how I want my horses to go.
there's got to be a better way, right? And so then I started looking for that better way. And then I started getting back into massage and taking lessons again and looking at people. And then also I have my own training business. of course I would only, I was young, was in my mid-late 20s. And I also worked for a reigning trainer in between, by the way. And that was another big learning experience.
That was really interesting and I learned some good things and a lot of really awful things. So these are the people that really got me started thinking this got to be a better way. And then when I started out on my own, got a lot of horses, of course, that nobody else really cared to take on. yeah, because that's what you do when you start out. And so then I was like, well, I have this bunch of horses that, you know, what can I do for them? How can I, know, what can they do? And so then I had Rissage at that time in the Southwest was very all breed and then.
very well established yet, then you could go in with a horse. And if that horse was just going correctly, you'd get a decent score and do okay. So that's what I started doing. And I revisited the dressage again, but then also I never got rid of my Western saddle and the stuff I had learned from the one good trainer I worked for, a cold starter.
who taught me how to start young horses in the round pen and do all those things before it was even called natural horsemanship. And so I kept that and I still start my young horses that way, the ones I still do start. And so it's just kind of evolved to where it's like, okay, well, I'll take the good and yeah, and there's some things that I will never ever do again, like start young horses on ace promise. And I mean, that's awful. Nobody should ever do that, but people do it all the time.
I love how you are so grounded because that was the other goal of the fair was to bring together all of these disciplines because in the industry there is, you know, I ride dressage or I do hunter jumpers or I yeah. Totally different from you. I know. mean, it's like I show Western dressage now. Well, not this year. Nobody shows this year. But, you know, so I was really excited when Western dressage started and I went to the judging seminar and then.
getting pretty involved in that. And that's really cool because now, I mean,
It's about time for that. I mean, this is exactly what I've always done anyway, just to put good grissage basics on any horse and any saddle. But you wouldn't believe some of the pushback from the classical grissage world, like, the Western grissage, they don't know what they're doing and Western riders have no idea. When I was working out of a classical grissage barn that was very fancy for a while, that was about 10 years ago, I thought I had finally arrived and that's like, I'm headed to FBI nirvana. But I didn't wanna let go of my Western clients
would come and I have my little quarter horses, have my rescue ponies from the horse shelters and I would train them all and people were like, well can't you get a real horse? I was like, these are real horses. So yeah, I never really did fit in. yeah, they would, mean, my God, when I would ride a horse in a western saddle, I'd give a lesson to somebody in a western saddle with a western.
And they'd be like, my god, that is so mean, that is so cool. was like, really, it's not. You've got two bits in your horse's mouth, and you're really pulling on your horse, and your horse's tongue is hanging out sideways. mean, how is that? Yeah, how can you look down on my clients who are in their simple little curb bit that the horse has been ridden in for years? And really, there's a lot to like. But yeah, it's just so hard for people to look past the tack. So I'm glad we have Western Versace, and I'm hoping that'll make the classical Versace word.
will revisit some of their notions because a lot of people don't want to show classical massage anymore because it's not any fun. Right. Yeah. And other areas, other avenues of showing in the horse industry are declining as well because it's not as fun for people. People want to do this. mean, a lot of people that we know, they want to feel good and that's why they get into horses. then they want their horse to feel good. I mean, that's the other thing. I mean, you know,
It's like if you show and then yeah, I've done a lot of the air of the Morgan shows and then.
the rail classes and the Hunter and the show hack and all those things that we used to do. know, I always thought, even if I walked away with a blue ribbon, it's like if I had to make the horse do awful things to get there, wasn't worth it. So I was always like, no, I'm going to, there's a lot of things that I won't do to get into a show ring. And I don't want to be one of those trainers that totally prove showing and say, oh, only cruel people show. That's not true. I think you can be responsible and kind and it's good to have goals and you can be a good rider and a good horse person.
and then still do some showing, but I think the goal has to change and the judging and some, and then lot of those venues has to change too. Whereas like if the horse clearly looks unhappy, well then maybe the horse shouldn't place. Go figure. I agree 100%. I do too. Yeah, definitely. I do too. And it's so, there's so much each horse has to offer in your field.
and each discipline has to offer in your field and your ability to ride, you know, different maneuvers and put different words to it. You're from Germany, so you understand the language can be very important in this. Oh my God, that's one of the things that I do a lot of thinking about and I write about that. My next book may be about that. I don't know yet. I wrote one about Dressage for all of us.
Yeah, I thought that needed to be said. But yeah, like the language is really, really, you know, it's interesting, know, with the teaching somebody. It sometimes it has the opposite effect when you say something and then you watch what that person does. It has the opposite effect from what you really wanted. And so it has to do with and that's one of my, that's one of the other things I've done is I went to college and I went to grad school and I, know, I
masters in German literature and one in English literature. just kind of did that like in the evening on the wayside and I have a graduate minor in linguistics because I always found that really fascinating what language does and how and that's one of my big areas of interest like how can we use language better around horses and then in teaching and in learning and you know in not being so disparaging to other people and then other horse breeds I mean how can we just reframe a lot of this stuff. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, tell us a little bit about your book. it's, I'm not marketing it very well. It's called Dressage for All of Us.
And it's basically my whole training and teaching philosophy. There's nothing that hasn't been said before. I mean, it's just good dressage in a language that people can understand. And it's basically written for all those people that come to me and say, well, I want my horses to go like the horses that you're riding or like my friend's horse that you train. But I don't want to do dressage. I don't want to go on this tight rein. I don't want to pull on my horse. I don't want to wear that stupid outfit. And so I'm like, OK, so for you, I write this book because it's not about.
And so this is, you know, really breaks it down into, know, you don't need to buy a new saddle, you don't need to buy a new horse. And this is what massage does, and this is what the training permit is, and this is why it's there. And this is why it's important to have a relaxed horse. And this is, you know, why it's important to then build on that. this is, you know, and this is why what lateral work is, and this is why we do it. And it's just very, yeah, very broken down into everyday terms. Which is great. And it's so important that people
understand the why because I think, yeah that's huge, the dressage model sometimes forgets about teaching the why. Yeah there's a big part of my book is about why do we do these things because people tend to not understand it's like well I take massage lessons and then the instructor says sit on the horse like this and bend your elbow a certain way and and have your leg in that position and you know and make your horse rounder here and more of that but it's like why do I do that yeah so that's huge.
Yeah, knowing why. Yeah, and you know, my students are intelligent, grown up people, most of them, and they want to know why and they have a right to know why they do the things that I tell them. So yeah, I'm not going to say because I'm the trainer. That's why I mean, I hope I never ever say that. Yeah, it's good. It's great that you sort of we all sort of chose our own, our own style. went off on our own. I mean, we still love dressage. We just have
there's our style of doing it, there's your style of doing it, right? And so it really is a language and it's supposed to be sort of a universal language. Some people are, they take it, you know, they're heavy or they use a lot of leg or whatever they're doing. And there's just, you know, we're taking it and we're saying, look, this is the way I'm going to apply it. And, but at least I can talk to you and I could say, do this movement or this movement.
and we would have sort of an understanding that we could use together with that. So I think that if you really look back at dressage, it was trying to get people out in the field doing other things. And it became its own discipline, which is okay, I guess, but look how many dressage horses you see at shows that are- yeah, I the-
Yeah, they're not. Yeah, they're cranked down and their nose. mean, their mouths are tight shut. then, you know, yeah, I mean, I've taken dressage lessons where I'm there, like with my my my loose noseband, you know, like if I have one at all. And so the first thing that dressage instructor does is take the noseband and go, okay, let's stop right there.
Yeah, it happens all the time. If you go to, and last year for the first time in a long time, know, it's like I actually, got so discouraged with classical Versace about 10, 12 years ago that I totally quit writing and you know, that wasn't a very good idea. So I didn't write at all for like three months. I went back to grad school. I started writing again because I just could not to, but then I started to really like revisit like what do I want to do with Versace?
Like for a while in my late thirties, thought, oh, well, I want to be a dressage person. want to, you know, go to FBI. want to, you know, like, like, like, like ride very fancy horses and go to fancy shows. And I've done some of that and I've done okay. But I, I say, I really, I just thought that's not me either. That's just, I mean, that's just not who I want to be. And, and I never wanted to, you know,
give up on the everyday horses and I love quarter horses. I've written so many excellent quarter horses and Morgans and Arabians and you know, and I've worked with so many people that are endurance riders and Western riders and cowboys and they all have good things to offer. So then you're in this massage world and everybody's like, now you forget all that. Now you're in a much better place. No, no, not really. So yeah. You're coming from experience because you've shown, you've got your bronze medal. You did it on a quarter horse, which is not easy.
Right? So tell us a little bit about that journey because that's,
That's interesting. it was. Yeah. know, it's like I was, you know, when I came back to dressage and I was, you know, out on my own as a trainer and I was, you know, working, know, taking lessons from different people. That's where all my spare money went and still does. And so, you know, then I thought, well, you know, it's like dressage is for all horses. And I was saying like what I'm saying now and what you guys are saying only I wasn't realistic as far as competition goes. So I would say, well, you know, it's like I've got this friend who rescued this quarter horse off the track. And, you know, and then he was doing all the movements of, you know, the first level and second level.
It's like we were showing and in training level that was, our scores were really good. Then you move up to first, second level, then it goes really down because of course he didn't have much of an extension of the trot. But still, mean, most of what he did was very, very correct. And then comes third level, it was really hard to get to 60s. But yeah, it was a real learning experience because my God, I learned that like you can, some judges won't even look at you.
It was super discouraging. Some judges, they see you enter on a little quarter horse and they're like, and you know, and everything's a five. then I didn't really, I thought it was me. I thought, I'm just a bad writer. If I take more lessons, if I learn how to train better, I look the part more, if I get like a more expensive pair of boots, then maybe my scores will go up. But no, then yeah, the thing that made me understand that part better was that I finally did get a.
break if you will. I had a client who had a couple of nice young warmbloods and let me show them and bring them along and I entered an A and everything all of a sudden everything was an H and if I really messed up a movement then maybe it was a seven. My poor little quarter horses.
You know, they would enter and everything was a five. if they really, really, if I did everything exactly right, then maybe it was a five and a half or a six, but that we have to really work for that. Whereas on the couple of warm-bloods that were so lovely and looked like what the judge expected to see, then everything was super high and you could make some pretty glaring mistakes and that didn't matter. So I was like, ⁓ that's how it is. Okay, so then I was super disappointed and.
and super disillusioned and then I well, I'll just quit showing altogether and then I thought, well, I can't do that either. So it's been a struggle as far as that goes. But yeah, I've pretty much, I've come to very similar places, you, it sounds like. Like I do wanna keep doing it, I do wanna keep showing it. There's a lot of people like what I have to offer there and so, you know, I'll keep doing that. Right. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, we used to both, we would both show ourselves.
dressage and jumpers and she did barrel racing as well and we would take students to shows and we absolutely 100 % understand and agree because we've had similar observations and I don't want to look apart anymore. You know like it's like you look the part you take this warm blood and you actually have higher scores right but maybe you worked really hard and the quarter horse is really doing great for where you're at but you just don't get rewarded that way and they need to know you don't each horse
you know, individually, as a judge, do your job and score accordingly and not be offended that somebody brought a horse that doesn't. well, that's the other thing. Some judges actually like, they look kind of offended, like how dare you enter my room on this 14 year old, a 14 year old pony. Yes. I paid the same money as everybody else. mean, he's like, I have a right to be judged.
Right, which makes sense that then there's the offshoot and there's the western. You know, when I hear western dressage, I always think, you know, on one hand, it's a good thing. On the other hand, it always, it's like, to me, it's sort of like an oxymoron because it's like, it's dressage, but I get it. We couldn't, we don't quite fit in the same because we have to wear, like you said, the certain outfit and have that type of saddle. So all of sudden all these offshoots came about, which
I guess in a way is really good because it gives people options. And the thing about showing is it gives people a goal. And so, you know, we have this where some people don't show and then they have a harder time figuring out their goals or evaluating where they add in their journey with their horse. So now do you have any like anything to say about people that don't show horses? What are some benchmarks or indicators that they can go off of?
that yeah, I have a lot of clients who don't say no, I don't ever want to show and I always tell them don't don't totally rule it out. You might, you know, need to get to a point where you might say it's a fun thing to try as long as it's not the only thing you focus on. But then if you if you're very clear, you don't want to do that. So there's, know, there's like a list of things that it's like I have like at my facility, I have like this little trail course area setup.
So we have this big front area with trees growing in it, so there's different obstacles in there. I'm like, okay, so can you trot over these logs? Can you open the gate without letting go of it? It's like even if your horse is a dressage horse and a dressage saddle, doesn't matter.
Can you go up on these tires and things? Can your horse sight pass over this lot? So trail obstacles are really good because that gives people something concrete to work on. some of that is stuff that might actually come up on the trail if that's what they want to do. And then quite apart from that, so I have this list of things like will your horse stand tight without sitting back? Can you lead your horse without constantly tugging or holding back or pulling? Can you pick your horse's feet up?
stand still while being saddled. So then when you get in the saddle, your horse stand still while you get up there from both sides? Will your horse walk and trot and then canter in both directions? Can your horse do a round circle? Can your horse do a leg heel? So then there's different things. then I was like, when people say, well, why would I want to learn that if I only want
trail, right? That is what that is a lot of discussions I've had like, well, you know, what you say only trail, right? I mean, I people pull up and say, well, you know, for the for an evaluation or their first lesson, and they say, well, all I want to do is trail, right? And we're doing okay with that. And then I get on the horse. Normally, that's what I like to do. See what the horse tells me. like, my God, I wouldn't take this horse on a trip. You're very brave. So then it's like, well, can you stop your horse when you want to? I mean, that's a B.
Right? So there's like all those things that, you know, that people realize, my gosh, I didn't know, you know, that maybe it would be good idea if I could control my horse in this setting or that setting. So yeah, there's always lots to work on. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's a funny question when, or when people, I guess it's a statement when people say, all I want to do is trail ride. And I always say, well, that's harder than riding in an arena. So you better, so let's get to work, you know, because there's more, there's more, there's more unknown, more skills that we need to work on.
to do that. yeah, it's the same here. I hear that a lot too. Yeah, yeah, it's a funny thing. Yeah. Right. You know, there's many, you know, we're just going back to dressage just because that's come up, but there's many upper level dressage riders that cannot ride their horse.
Yeah, that is so funny. I mean, I get that too. And then all of my dressage horses, by the way, they do go on trails and I'm very lucky I have direct trail access from my barn. So, you I get to play with that a lot. But yeah, and it's so good for a dressage to go up a hill and down a hill and be with other horses and go on a loose rein and not have to always be in that frame. mean, that's not good for any horse.
So yeah, that's another thing on that list of things a horse should know. Like, yeah, can your horse go on a trail, right? I mean, they should be able to, right? But yeah, a lot of upper level prasadshars are like, I'd never do that. So that is very funny. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's so neat that you're able to pull in all of these perspectives and help your students from wherever they're at. That's pretty cool. Yeah. No, I've always enjoyed that. mean, my current working student, she's an endurance, right? And of course, I love that.
because I'm an endurance runner. And that's, by the way, that's also taught me a lot about riding horses. And so, you know, so my working student, she's a very soft and she grew up on a horse farm and her mother, you know, breeds horses. So, you know, she's a very soft rider. There's a lot to like there, but she's definitely afraid of contact. And so now we're really working on, I'm really working on teaching her that it's not a bad thing and the horse can be happy doing that. And it will really help her at the start of an endurance race.
go completely bonkers and then completely out of control, which he now does, and he wastes a lot of energy that way. yeah, so that's another thing that I do is I work with endurance riders and do dressage basics with their horses. And I love that crowd because there's so much less tension than the dressage people. Yeah, no, that's cool. Now tell us a little bit about the running that you do, the endurance running, because that is something that I think
is important for all riders to think about the athletic component of it.
And I'm sure not only the athletic component of ourselves, but also our horses. I'm sure it's taught about both. Yeah, that's one of the reasons I love working with endurance riders, because they understand that a horse's fitness sets a big piece of the puzzle, right? It's not the only piece. I mean, they can be fit and really crooked and really not working correctly. But it's like if they're fit, that's a big piece of the puzzle right there. A lot of massage horses are not very fit. If they work for 35 minutes, they're exhausted. And so that is something that they get.
Yeah, that's something that needs to be addressed. And I know from my own journey as an athlete, mean, it's like horses are.
and so are riders. so riders need to be fitter than they are, a lot of them. And then if they have no core strength and if they have no balance and if they have no idea where the center is, well, then maybe there's things that they need to go off the horse to do that. And then it's the same with the horses. If the horse is completely lacking in fitness, then there's something a little wrong there. mean, it's like you don't want to, it's like, so those are some of the trail riders that work with this. They well, I just want to go once a week for this five hour trail ride. It's like, really? So your own training, would you do it that way?
I don't run all week and then I go for this five hour all-out effort. That's that's not being very nice. So yeah. Yeah that's another soapbox that I sometimes stand on with people. What about the mental end of like the ultra marathons and when you start hitting those points where you're just low
And I mean, how do you get through that? What goes through your head? Tell us about when you do run. Well, that's really, it's an exercise in mindfulness. Just like riding horses all day, it's very similar. It's like the time is here, the time is now, the place is here. So that is what goes through my head. And so what the ultra runners, like one saying that we have in the ultra running community and the hundred mile community is like, well, you have to learn to embrace the suck.
So you know it's going to get really bad, right? If you're out there in the mountains for 100 miles, I did the bighorn 100 last year. mean, that was gnarly. We had snow, had mud, had sleet, we had lightning and thunder, we had everything. There were times I thought I was going to die out there. then I thought, wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, really. But no, you just learn to just
be there with it and you know that even if you're at mile 60 and you're really thinking of quitting and you're thinking it's gonna get worse from here on forward, you know, now that I've done this 20 some times in a hundred mile races, I can say it doesn't always get worse. It's like there's gonna be another sunrise, there's gonna be, you you'll be able to eat again, you'll quit throwing up and then, you know, it's like you won't quit hurting but it'll get a little better and you know, and you can finish and nothing compares to crossing that finish line.
And so, know, that's this interesting, you know, analogies there for riding horses because like the training process is very much like running a hundred where like, you know, you're in it for the long haul and, you know, there's going to be parts of that where you're going to be frustrated and you can say, Oh my God, you know, I don't even know how to ride. am I doing charging people money for this? You know, and then there's going to be moments where you know, the feeling rises.
And then there's gonna be moms who are like, wow, this is just the best job in the world and I'm so freaking lucky to doing it. And so it helps to know that going in that it's not all gonna be this blissful experience. There's gonna be times that are gonna feel really awful, but then there's gonna be other times that make it all worth it. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think that's so important for amateurs to understand.
because that's there are hard moments and there are times where you've got to come to yeah and there are times and that's you know it's like where I have you know a bit of a problem with the people that say well you should only use positive reinforcement and no there are going to have times when you have to tell the horse no this is not ever we don't do that
And it doesn't mean that your relationship is bad. It just means that you have good boundaries. yeah, I mean, I've had a couple of people who say, well, we only want to do the clicker training, and we never want to discipline our horses. I'm like, well, good luck to you. That's great. But I feel like there comes a time when it's like, yeah, you do have to set certain limits. And you do have moments where the harmony kind of goes away. And as long as it's for a moment.
that is okay, as long as you then get it back. I mean, it's like to me, the abuse comes in with this prolonged, like, you know, in the dressage where you have those people that they're nagging legs and they're nagging hands and they're nagging spurs and they're, you know, they're nagging everything where everything like they try to squeeze them and step out of the horse or the Western writers that are constantly correcting and backing off and, you know, doing like this gazillion one-way stops and then the horse is twisted into a pretzel. mean, and it just keeps going on and it doesn't really have a purpose. I mean, that to me is a lot more abusive.
then the correction that's like, okay, you get it over with. But yeah, it's important for people to understand that there comes a time when you can't, it's like you wanna be your horse's best friend, but there comes a time when you should just, being the best friend means you say no, we don't do that. Right, it's like in a herd, I mean, and it's the same with us and the way we work with horses. There's certain, we're encouraging certain actions and mindsets and we're discouraging other movements or actions or mindsets with horses.
So it's like this encourage, discourage thing. Horses, and I'm all for being as positive as you can. And then everybody who's ever watched me and worked with me knows that, it's like, yeah, I really try to be as positive with horses as possible. But yeah, it's not 100 % possible. then people have asked me that, can you promise me that you'll only use positive reinforcement on my horse? And then I have to say, oh, no, no, I'm not your trainer. I can't really do that. Yeah.
Yeah, and I think when you're when you live, you know, we live with horses. I think you live with horses. Yeah, they're in and it's like, it's different when we see how they are in the herd. It's when I go out and feed hay bales when I have to drive my tractor through the gate and put hay bales outside. It's like, there it's got to be real and in a way that the horse can understand and horses are very clear with each other. And they very much get to the point. And most of the time,
It's good they're in harmony together. But there are moments where it's not. Yeah, there's like threatening gestures and sometimes there's bite marks. that's another pet peeve I have with the dressage riders. The big fancy barn that I worked out of for a while, they had those tiny little turnout pens and the horses would
go for like an hour at a time by themselves, and I would say, well, can't you make a bigger pen? And then my horses, they to really go together. That's kind of part of their life. And that's a big part. And they looked at me like I was this really cruel person. But no, now in the barn where I'm working, thankfully, it's like, you know, the owner understands that better and the turnout pens are much bigger. So yeah, have groups of three that I turn them out. you know, sometimes it doesn't work. And then I get horses that haven't really been socialized well, but mostly it did.
it works from day one. yeah, the horse might have a bite mark on it for a day or two, but you know, it's like then they figure it out and they know and it's fine after that. So yeah, it's yeah, that's another thing that I think for us art writers are. Yeah, it's like, my horse can't have any marks on it. like, please. Yeah, it'll heal. Right. Yeah, I think it's it's any of that, you know, the show realm where people need. Yeah.
It's a look. It's about the look, not necessarily the horse. Exactly. But also there's this personification that goes on with people and horses all the time. And so they don't quite understand what their horse needs, like movement and like to play. huge. can fix so many problems just by getting them out enough. I mean, that's another thing my own endurance training has confirmed. I knew it before then. But yeah, it's like, there's so many, like, if I don't get to run.
my God, I'm not even the same person like after a few days and I think it's the same with horses like I know what that horse feels like when it's stuck in a stall and can't get out. I mean you just get to where you're not even the same the same horse and I totally understand that. Yeah, mean think about a wild horse. mean off the top of my head what's what would a wild horse travel a day maybe 12-15 miles?
You know, so you think about that and you think about what our horses help you know and our horses are turned out in a big area, but it's cool don't even move close to that. Yeah. And so yeah.
So if they're turned out and you ride them and you, you know, it's like ideally, you know, like if I totally had it my way, it's like I would, you know, do like ride them for an hour and then like do something else with them and, and, and turn them out most of the day, you know, like, like, and all that. I mean, it's like, that would be the ideal lifestyle. And then, you know, that, goes for humans too, by the way, I think a lot of, you know, mental and physical ailments we wouldn't have if we just moved more.
I agree 100%. Yeah. Yeah. And you know about that. do. Yeah. Yeah. But arthritis since I was a child at like five years old, was diagnosed and my wrist is fused and my fingers fused tons of surgeries. But man, I learned from early on through my physical therapy and through life that if you don't use it, you lose it. Exactly. These horses with, know, that are, that you look at them and
they look physically able, but they're turning up lame, oftentimes you find they've been sitting in a stall, which is not what the body is made for. It's not made for... No, no. And it's really like, yeah, even with an injured horse, yeah, there's like, if you have this acute injury that really needs to be kept quiet, okay, fine. But after like a little bit of that, it's like, yeah, walking is better than not moving at all.
And so yeah, most of the time, even for a horse that's not really sound, it's better for them to move. And I have a horse in training now that has an old tendon injury and he wasn't supposed to be sound, but he's nice and rideable and doing good things. I'm like, oh, so far so good. And I think patient training and a lot of movement, mostly walking and jogging, it's done him a lot of good. And he's sounder than his vet ever thought he would be. Right, yeah.
So getting back to now people and people being physically fit. Now we all understand how important that is with their relationship with their horse, but how do you tell clients that they're not fit and that they need to become more fit? Well, it takes some tact and diplomacy. Germans aren't known for that.
I try to be really nice about it. I try to wait until the moment is right. I try to make them see like, this is, yeah. And most of my clients, they know me.
They know that, I need to lose 50 pounds, or I need to have a little bit more stamina. So when I work with somebody, and so the horse is doing pretty well, and then the rider says, I need to take a break. So then I said, well, think about it. If you started to work a little bit on your own fitness, then you wouldn't need that, and then your horse would be able to progress a little more today. So that's a good moment to bring that up. But it doesn't do any good to walk up to people and fat shame them. I mean, no. No, I don't do that. No, no.
But it's a hard, yeah, it's hard, but it's necessary. It is. it's like, you know, especially we know the difference that what that can do for our balance, our ability to move with the horse and flow along with the horse. And if people could just understand that this is so much working on ourselves first.
Yeah, both mentally and physically. yeah. Do what we need to do. It's one thing to watch a video. That's that's just an idea. And that's just, you know, that's one part of it. But what you do off the horse is just so important. So yeah, no, that is a huge component. And yeah.
it's when you watch a video and then you try, yeah, that's by the way, that's not a criticism of the online horse fair or video channels. I mean, now that you've inspired me to get the YouTube channel up and I was like, I'm gonna learn how to do that now.
Yes, but that's also like, you have to be a little bit cautious because watching somebody else do something on a horse and then you try to do that, have to also you have to really understand the why behind it. mean, in my video for the horse fair, I really tried to do that. Like this is why I'm doing this. This is what happens when I don't do it. this is, you but yeah, so that's what, you know, that's what I think also in peace learning for a lot of people that, you know, they imitate. They're like, yeah, I want to look like that person. I want my horse to look like that horse.
then you don't fully understand what it is you're trying to accomplish and then you're setting yourself up for not being able to accomplish anything. And so yeah, I'm really trying to that's another thing as I like like area that I do a lot of thinking and writing and teaching and. Right. And that's another nice feature about the fair is that maybe my specialty isn't off of the horse exercises, although I do work on that a little bit.
but I might be able to send a person over to somebody else in the fair and say, look at this, check this person out. Maybe I like working with ⁓ the horsemanship side of things a bit more. So that allows us to say, here's another person, check out this video and maybe it's easy. no, definitely. Yeah, no, and there is, I mean, there's some really good people that specialize in doing exercise off the horse. And that's another thing where it's like with all my injuries from running and all of that and all of the falls I've taken and all
I've hit the dirt. You know, like I finally last year went to see a physical therapist and it made a big difference as I got I wish I had done that 20 years ago. I mean, that's another thing that I tell people a lot like if you know, it's like if you're you know, like if you can't sit straight and or it's like if that really hurts you or like like if you if that's not comfortable if you if you can't even like walk without pain like that's something you should address in your own body and you know, and we're horse people so we tend to power through it but you know, that's not always in our best interest.
Exactly. No, I think the neat part about horses and riding is it's so inclusive. So there's, you've got this caring for another being, right? This animal. You've got the care of yourself, which has so many facets. It has nutrition, it has stability balance, it's got the mindset aspects, it's got the physical fitness aspects. So you have
that slice of this puzzle or the circle, guess, or whatever you would like to call it. You know, and then you've got understanding the mental component of another being that thinks completely different than we do. Yeah.
But that is what's so fascinating. just wrote a blog post about that. That is what's so fascinating about riding horses in the first place. And that's another issue I have with the clicker trainers who barely get on their horses. This is a way of communicating with another being that is so much more nuanced and so much more subtle. it's like you can talk to the horse directly with your butt and your back. And it's just amazing.
I mean, I can't do that with my dog. I can't do that with my cat. mean, we can communicate with them and then we can use our body language, but not in this direct way. I mean, when I turn my body a little bit and the horse goes, oh, I know what you want. I'll do that. I mean, it's huge. So that is just, I mean, if you really think about that, it just blows the mind. Yeah, it's like the ultimate dance, isn't it? Yeah. And not only that, but then maybe, now you're a fast runner.
And I'm sort of a fast runner. I'm a slow runner. I'm doing it for really long time. But think about how far or how fast a horse could take us or how high a horse, you know, I can jump a lot higher on the back of a horse. And so it's like their legs are our legs at that, you know, the mark. It's together. So it's the ultimate. And I think that's why so many people are attracted to it.
And it's a sport you can do until you're your 90s. mean, if you... Oh, and yeah, yeah, exactly. And, you know, it's like, I'm gonna be 50 this year. And so I'm, you know, I'm doing a lot of thinking about, you know, getting older too. And I'm thinking, yeah, yeah. So this, know, it's like, and I look at some people, like, especially guys that are like big strapping muscular, and they use their muscles because they have them. And so then, you know, it's like, I talked to this older cowboy friend of mine, and, know, he said, you know, it's like, he didn't really reach the,
the level of forcemanship that he is at today until his physical strength started kind of going away. And then he realized like, oh, I don't need that. And I was like, yeah, I'm kind of getting to the same point. I mean, if you have the strength, you're going to use it because you can. If you don't have it, well, then you realize, oh, maybe you shouldn't have done that in the first place. So yeah, and that's really cool. mean, do you see that video of the Japanese guy, the Olympian? That's what, 76 now, I think. Yeah, I mean, that's yeah, he's riding Grand Prix.
And it's like, okay, well, that's, you know, like, I've got to love you 25 more years to look forward to. you know, yeah, it's really cool that we can do it until we're older. And, especially when we're older, we can do it even better when we're older. Yeah, exactly. You're, because you, you know, finding a better way, working with the mind of the horse. And there was a difference when we were younger, because we met when we were quite young. And so, yeah, I had, was, I would get in there more and I was definitely more physical when I was a kid. And I wish I knew better.
Paula, she wasn't able to do what I did in that respect. So she found a better way. she took my time. Where grass was an advantage, actually. Yeah, yeah. How to truly communicate because force wasn't an option, you know? Yeah, no, that's great.
Yeah, and it really wasn't for me either. I mean, it's like I'm 5'6 and then not very big. And so, you know, I was like, okay, well, if I want to do what those other people do, I better be smart about it. I don't want to get killed. And yeah, so that that does make you think. yeah, it's like if you look at, you know, some, you know, dressage riders or some of those reigning trainers that are like those huge guys and they can just intimidate the horse into doing whatever. Yeah, I feel kind of sorry for them because it's like, you know, it works for them. Why would they do it differently? But it would.
Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, it would. Yeah. And the horses they, they, you know, in some respects, they are a reflection, you know, that not always, but but they are a reflection of how we're going about doing, doing these things, just like our children can be, you know, and those in our life can kind of reflect back to us how we are. And so it's, it's, yeah, horses are just so interesting that way, because I think they magnify some of those things, if we're willing to actually see.
Yeah, yeah, horses and reflecting their riders that is, know, it's like, yeah, they say dogs look a lot like their owners after a few years. think horses go like, yeah, they go the way we ride them. And that's, can learn a lot about the person by watching, you know, how do these do this. And yes, like, yeah, it's like if you like one horse might come with a lot of baggage and yeah.
But, it's not like this surefire thing, but it's like I've encountered a lot of combinations of like, okay, well, so this is how this person is. And it's like, yeah, if the horse looks happy and relaxed and trusting, that's the big recommendation. It's like, I'm more inclined to trust that person. But that's why I think like in those pandemic times where we really need to ride our horses, I mean, that is just huge. I mean, they're so good for us.
It's like most of the barns in my area are totally shut down and I've been refusing to do that. It's like I'm not teaching right now because it's considered non-essential, but my boarders can come and visit their horses and ride their horses and I'm like, you I'm gonna...
you know, really like fight for your right to do this because that is what keeps us all sane. And they all say like, you come to the barn, you know, one at a time and you miss the social time, which is unfortunate, but it can't be helped right now. you know, the time that people spend on their horse, that's the one time they don't think about it, all the, you know, like the news and then all the dire predictions. And then that to me is like this sanctuary feeling.
And I just feel so incredibly lucky. I get to go to the barn and that's the rhythm of my day. I ride the first horse, I unsaddle that one, I take it out to the pasture, I bring the second horse in and then it just goes like that all day. And it's just the best way to live life. I mean, you're very in the moment. It's like a state of meditation almost. is. Yeah, yeah. And like you said, eventually these people need to ride, if not ride that horse, maybe ride another horse for a while, but get in the saddle.
work on yourself and then be able to have that goal of riding your horse because that is why most people do it. And the vision that they see isn't them standing on the ground with a lead rope. The vision in their mind is being on that horse and riding. And so eventually they need to get to that.
get to that point because... Yeah, and I'm glad you're saying that because it's like, yeah, there's some people who probably at this point should not be on their horses because it's going to get them killed. But the goal should be, yeah, it's like to experience that feeling of like, if I do this with my back, then the horse will follow and it's a beautiful thing. to, you know, not so much to control, but to want the same thing.
to suggest things with our bodies and then the horse says, I'll be happy to do that. I mean, that's what I'm trying to get people to experience. yeah, it's, yeah, and like you say, the goal isn't to stand on the ground and you can do that with a dog. mean, if that's all you want to do, you can use other animals that are just as suited to that and they're not as big and they're not as expensive, but.
Yeah, with horses, that's one of the things that fascinates me, that we can be on their back and we can communicate in this super special way. I always wondered, do you ever wonder how many species early humans tried to ride before they figured out that horses would be the thing? Like imagine, the wooly mammoth, have a hard time steering, the giant sloth doesn't go anywhere. Exactly. No, and going back to the...
thoughts that you had on you know everybody not being able to go see their horses during this time they really they really connect us like you said in that mindful state that here and now state that takes us out of this fear vibration yeah that people are so stuck in because of being stuck just you know hearing the new I mean you listen to the news
you're seeing people in masks. ⁓ my God, I never thought it would affect me this badly to be at the grocery store and not be able to see people's faces. I mean, I started crying in the parking lot the other day. It was like, my God, I mean, this is like, like, what's this world coming to? And yeah, my husband was not a horse person. He says, well, let's watch World War Z and contagion. Let's get ready for the, yeah, he's watching all those apocalyptic movies and he thinks it's really funny. And I'm like, I can't do that right now. It's very depressing.
But yeah, then you get to the barn and it's like the horses have nothing to do with it. And they remind us of that and then you just forget about it. So it's huge for me. I mean, I can't imagine not having horses right now. I know, I know. And there's so many people, know, through the fair, I have gotten so many emails from people that are just, they're devastated. They have not seen their horse in months. Their horses had a foal. They haven't been able to see the foal.
They're locked in their apartment. They're not even able to go outside. It's just, it's so sickening and sad because nature brings us back to what's real.
No, and I've had long discussions with my barn owner. said, look, we can't shut it down. We can be sensible. We can be responsible. But I just can't keep people away from their horses right now. It would be just cruel and unusual and damaging in all sorts of ways. And it's not going to spread any viruses, because horses don't really do that. So we can be smart about it, and we can take all sorts of precautions. But please, let's not shut the barn down.
been fighting for that. We've allowed clients to come out too because of that same reason that own their own horse because yeah it's just it's essential I feel it's essential. Yeah it is essential not so yeah maybe not for the horses but for us it is. yeah it's a huge deal right now and so you know and I'm worried about what this whole thing will do to the horse industry there's a lot of people say well this might be the end of it and I try not to think about that but God I hope not I mean we need horses we really do.
I think because of the way horses make people feel, we'll always have some business and there'll always be people that want horses, but it might just change what people do. And maybe there's less showing, but people are still going to want to learn and people still want to work on themselves. And the horse will do that. So it's definitely not the end of the horse industry. It's probably just a new...
It's a start to something new. Yeah, and we can look at it as an opportunity to like, was that really ever important? Like those excesses of, know, the hundred thousand dollar horse with the, know, and the thousand dollar dressage boots and all those things like that's, you know, a little bit disgusting to me. I mean, it's like nobody needs that. And so, you know, maybe it'll be a good thing to not have that and to realize that maybe just a normal horse is a really beautiful thing that you can learn a lot from.
Right. And being away from the horse, maybe there's many people that have had time to think and evaluate where they're at and where they're at with their horsemanship. And maybe the videos caused them to, they need to make a change and normally they would be spending their time at the barn. Well, exactly. And that was like, you know, guys really timed it right. I mean, I, I told a lot of
people about, and they're like, oh, you need to watch this. And you've got a lot of my friends. mean, you've got Jack there and Amy and, you know, a bunch of people that I really respect and care about. And so, you know, it's nice for people to be able to watch like different trainers. And then, you you know, like, oh, you know, Amy sounds just like you're like, well, you know, that's because we've like reached a very similar spot, and, know, like, along a different route, maybe, but it's just nice to have that.
crossover and then to realize like, oh, you know, you can have a Western trainer and a massage trainer and a hunter trainer and you know, a physical therapist and like, like all those different people and it all just kind of like, it's like a Rubik's cube and you can, you know, have like the size of it's kind of like, like, it's like, oh, this is another piece like there. Oh, this fits in here. This is really cool. So no, I've made that experience too. So I really want to thank you for putting that on. That's, that was super. Yeah.
You're welcome and thank you. It's great having you as a part of it. it would be nice to get out there sometime. We like New Mexico. Where are you guys at? We're in Wisconsin. Right, so north of Milwaukee. we did, for about six months, years ago, for about six months we worked on a cattle ranch in Arizona. it was fun because we took, I took some clients' trochaners that I showed for him and we had some of our own. We took 11 horses down there.
And some were training horses and some were our own, but we would go into the Phoenix and Tucson area and we would sometimes show them jumpers and all out rowed one of the studs dressage, but we would spend the week riding on this ranch. That's what we did. And we didn't really go, there weren't jumps there at the ranch. There's no, yeah, I mean the arena, why go on the arena when you had all this land?
And so we ended up then going to the shows on the weekends and then the horses in the arena were fresh. They were like, I haven't seen this. This looks different. This. And they were, they were, they had some energy and some curiosity. it was just, it was so, it was an interesting experience to go from. bet. Yeah. That sounds really cool. Arizona. Yeah. And then they have this idea of, which was really hard for us to grasp in the beginning. You can ride wherever you want. Yeah. You don't have that here.
I on my land, we do ride wherever we want, but if I have horse pastures or hay fields, I'm not riding. Yeah, yeah. You don't want to do that. So you make these boxes and squares and out in Arizona, it was like every week, could ride any direction you could let, you could just be, let the horse go and see where they took you. So I just, I loved that. That was my favorite part.
Yeah, that was cool. And you probably have a little bit that in New Mexico as well, huh? yeah, yeah. No, have desert. yeah. yeah, yeah, I hardly ever get to really go out into the wilderness where you can really do that. even right behind my barn, we've got 50 acres with some horse trails. And there's a neighbor who is an adventurer. So he put trails up there. And you can actually, it's nice. You can actually go and gallop a horse if you want to. It's a really neat thing. It is a neat thing.
and get on a colt and if they were real, real fresh, because they had a colt starting company as well. So we did some, some out there while we were there had to earn our keep. Anyway, you take them and you'd head down towards a wash and you'd be like, okay, if you want to move out, move out and wash and it'd be sandy and they'd go for a while and then, yeah. And then they get tired. And you'd go do the next thing. And it was, it was cool. It was pretty cool.
Yeah, so when we moved to our property here, we worked with excavation companies and we put in hills and our land's relatively flat, but there's a creek that runs through it. So then we use that, we put in these hills to try to just simulate more of, more terrain changes. And we understand the physical fitness aspect, right? So up and down hills is so important. Yeah, it's huge.
Right. Yeah, it really is like in a dressage or as it really builds their top line and their muscles that you all made risotto just go up and down the hills a lot. It's really good for them mentally and physically. Yeah, I have a reason to carry themselves. Yeah. You and to work on, know, you go up and down my hill a few times. And it's like, how many 20 meter circles would it take to work the muscles and you wouldn't even work them the same way you're working but no, it's yeah.
Don't get me wrong. love 20 meter circle. It looks, but yeah, it's like the up and down. There's no substitute for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, that's cool. And, know, and I, and, you know, I have nothing against, ⁓ dressage as a, as a, you know, language and as a training system. I don't have a problem with that. I just think we should put our own style to it. And I'll just, I'll do some of that outside. I'll do some, you know, I'll work.
dressage on my trails on the hills. did it with her dressage that you did some pre-seat George on and hardly rode him in the ring. just did all my conditioning on the trails and I hadn't been in the standard dressage arena until the dressage show, know, until I go to the dressage shows. Yeah, then he had the movement. Yeah, then he had the movement, right? Because he had been riding out using himself. If I had ridden sand circles...
there's no way I would have been able to get here. Yeah, no, you got to switch things up. mean, I love my little trail course that also has some elevation change and you can just keep things varied and then, yeah, it's like if they do the same thing every single day, my God, I mean, it's like they go crazy too. Right, exactly. Yeah. Any, how can people get ahold of you? you have a website? I know you have your Yeah, so if you Google my name, my website is kathrinsilvadrasaj.com.
And yeah, it comes up and I'm in the process of redoing it, but it's fairly serviceable. ⁓ And I need to put a link to my book on my website, but it's also available on Amazon and on Maddie Butcher's website on Nicar News. So that's another good way to read what I write. So Nicar News publishes a lot of my musings there. Right, so you have your blog and then also, so what is the name of the blog?
It's just under my on my website. So yeah, okay. Yeah, and then the name of your book as well is dressage for all of us. Okay Yeah, it started out as dressage for the rest of us and yeah There was like some some ladies who cried copyright infringement and so, you know, so we just did yeah So we just changed the title to dressage for all of us. So that's what it is now, right? I love it. Good. Yeah, I do too
I do too. And you're working on a YouTube channel, it sounds like. Yeah, yeah, I'm working on a YouTube channel. I just ordered a microphone. like, one of the guys I work with at the barn is fairly knowledgeable about these things. I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna get going on that. So there will be more videos and lots to look forward to. So thank you for getting me started along those lines there. Yeah, good. You're welcome. Yeah, it's good that you're heading that direction. That's awesome. You've got a great message. Yeah, you do great work. And it's funny how that,
Karen's got Paula on her track. so we're realizing, we're like, you know, there's opportunity here with technology. And although horses bring us back to nature and being real again.
it's nice that we can branch out and talk to each other. wouldn't. Yeah, yeah. And then we can connect the dots, so to speak. We can connect the dots between disciplines that we need. Yeah. And I'm realizing now with technology and also with having my book out, there's a lot of people in that position who are like, well, this can't be all there is to it. And so I'm like, okay, well, you know, so this is good. So people can find what they really want to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the community is huge and the need.
is out there and there's so many trainers just like you, just like us that are, that just want to do good for the horse. And it doesn't matter, you know, what, what discipline, what type of horse it just, we just want it to be a good experience for the horse, the rider. Exactly. Promote that message, which. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, good for you. Thank you so much. I better get myself on a horse here. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Well, thank you for joining us today. We sure appreciate it. Well, thanks for having me.
Yeah, and then thank you everybody for joining in with us here today. We appreciate you, appreciate you for being here. And so we're gonna say goodbye. Okay, good to see you guys. Thank you. you. Bye bye.
